Peter Fenzel and Matthew Wrather overthink Captain America: Winter Soldier and whisper “Hail Hydra” in one another’s ear.[audio:http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect.mp3/traffic.libsyn.com/mwrather/otip301.mp3]
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I have to ask: is the proper form “Captain Americas” or “Captains America”?
Captain Americas sounds like a dude really interested in the Panama Canal or the U.S.S. Maine.
I woke up in the middle of the night because I realized another pop culture reference that we forgot on the podcast. When we first see Danny Pudi (who is a meta-casting pop culture reference himself, given Abed’s encyclopedic knowledge of pop culture references), he’s saying “Negative, Ghostrider, the pattern is full.”
Which leads me to refine my classification from the episode. There are diagetic pop culture references that the characters make to one another (which is realistic, because we all do that)—Black Widow saying “Would you like to play a game” or “Negative, Ghostrider” or the Marvin Gaye album.
The interesting thing about these is to construct what pop culture exists in-universe; presumably everything except Marvel Comics. And Pulp Fiction, because…
There are references the filmmakers are making to the audience, which go entirely above the head of the characters, like “Path of the Righteous Man.” Presumably, Pulp Fiction and Samuel L Jackson don’t exist in-universe.
Or DOES he…?
Marvel Comics actually does exist within the comics that marvel publishes. In the comics Captain America worked as an artist on his own comic book for several issues.
Good “well actually.”
Two things entirely irrelevant to your main point
1. It’s not bureaucracy in action, but Death Note makes writing totally ridiculously visual. A horribly low res video:
2. Matt really loves to hit the SVU nail, but does he ever talk about Game of Thrones with his SVU hammer?
I think it would be a straw man argument; does anyone make the case that the T&A in GoT are anything other than a cynical ploy for titilation? The thing about cop shows is that the nominal restoration of order at the end can fool you into thinking you’re engaged in a righteous enterprise.
I would not say the titilation in Game of Thrones is cynical. I would say it is for entertainment purposes, in the sincere belief that it is something people want to see, because it causes pleasure.
You know, because this whole thing is a fantasy.
By “cynical,” I mean determined primarily by what the market wants rather than by what the story needs, and is a play for attention and popularity by means other than those purported to be employed.
Maybe it’s unfair to single out Game of Thrones, because pretty much every HBO show concerns itself with the provision of T&A; the cynicism, I think, is in the assumption that the provision of T&A is necessary for popularity.
I would defend, at least, the scene where Lord Baelish is instructing Ros as being fairly story driven. The problem with characters like Baelish in visual media is that, since they keep their motivations to themselves, it can be very difficult to show them to the audience. In order to do so, you need a reason for him to be spilling his deepest secrets and showing his true face. The scene is a perfect prompt for Baelish to spill his guts, because it both contains a pretense for the transmission of information, (the instruction he is giving to Ros), and occurs in a place where he feels safe (inside his place of power, one of the houses that he runs.)
Okay, finally finished.
I don’t know that I agree about the commentary on drone warfare being in the same school as the other recent anti-drone films. The fallability of SHIELD’s system isn’t the unreliability of drone pilots, but a fundamental threat in the people controlling. Embracing transparacency rather than trusting a proverbial black box (the algorithm) to produce with desirable accuracy future threats (to world safety, not hydra) is presented as offensive because the examples shown are so repugnant (e.g. the high school valedictorian, little league coach), but the speed with which the helicarrier targets and identifies Aunt Robin indicates that unintended damage is not a concern.
That said, I don’t have much to say about the deployment of pop culture itself. I wondered if there would be a meaningful metaphor in the casting of Van Camp from Revenge in her role, but she was presented as capable rather than belligerent or othwewise emotional.
Something the movie did with pop-culture that was kind of interesting was changing the list of things Captain America needed to catch up on depending on what country the movie was seen in. I have no idea why Captain America would want to know who about a show about a bush Kangaroo though. I kind of wonder what benefit the movie gets from changing that list in other countries given how long the list is shown for and he fact it’s never mentioned again. Are people really that petty that they demand Captain America respect the things that their country respects?
I don’t think it’s petty, but yeah, from my experience, people from outside the United States really appreciate it when U.S. based entertainments and communications acknowledge that they exist. I’d imagine the altered list got big laughs in some places.
There were definitely chuckles in the cinema when I saw it last weekend, but I’m unsure if that was due to local content (I honestly can’t remember if we had the American list or Australian) or just general amusement.
“Koreans get Ji Sung Park, Dance Dance Revolution, and Oldboy”
Is Cap really going to be interested in Oldboy? I mean, sure, amazing movie, but really? Doesn’t seem like the down-home values he’s into. Assuming it’s talking about the Park Chan-wook movie, is that really something that’s part of Korea’s national identity?
So this movie starts out with the idea that we put way to much trust and blind faith in institution that claim to have our best interests at heart, breaks approximately all the glass in Washington DC to tell us in the most obvious metaphor that this is a really bad situation, and then ends with absolutely everyone doing whatever Captain America says. I get that the movie is called Captain America, but you can’t have every single plot point and sub-theme about abusing trust, introduce two characters main-ish characters who are defined by their independence, and then have the climax of your movie be everyone agreeing to give up their life’s work because some guy who they probably barely know says so.
Just got back from seeing Captain America: (Should we have a) World Police?
My two favorite bits of dialogue That Were Really In The Film:
Falcon: “They’re all wearing the same uniform! How can we tell the good guys from the bad guys?!”
Cap: “The bad guys are the ones facing full-length windows at a 3/4 rear to the camera, standing feet should width apart, hands clasped behind their back, ominous gaze into the rising distance just a hair downcast!”
Falcon: “Right! I got this!”
(cue shaky cam, explosions)
Random Hydra Scientist #1: “Hey, I was thinking. Maybe Mr. Wrather is right. I mean, should we really be designing our heli-carrier CPU to be in the form of easily accessible, manually switch-able control chips, subject to the contingencies of chance, error, and heroic ingenuity? Shouldn’t we at least lock the door?”
Random Hydra Scientist #2: “Bob, we’re dealing with a superhero whose schtick seems to be physically breaking through physical obstacles, prying open metal doors with his hands, and whose main salient combat ability consists of the violent ejection and constant without-a-hitch retrieval of a MacGuffin.”
Random Hydra Scientist #1: Yeah, you’re right. Move forward with Operation Giant Glass Bubble! Hail Hydra!”
I want to call the phone number that nobody calls, and leave a message whispering, “hail hydra!”
But I’m pretty sure that’s how you get put on terrorist watch lists.
Which is totally not a problem, because the terrorist watch list is controlled by HYDRA.
(Finally saw the movie and can’t wait to listen to this episode.)
Since you guys were trying to figure out the the significance of the Marvin Gaye song “Troubleman” I can sum it up for you. Sam Wilson told Cap the song is the easiest way to catch up on everything he’s missed. In the song there are the following lyrics, “There’s only three things that’s for sure. Taxes, death and trouble”. This is Sam Wilson’s way of saying that although externally the world seems very different in reality nothing has actually changed. Hydra was and still is around. They’ve just morphed and adjusted to the times.
There is also the significance of when the song was made, and why:
See this wiki articles for a summary
These are at least my reasoning behind why the song is so significant to the plot
Finally watched this. Loved it, as well as the podcast. Nothing to add except—
Hammer one nail, two more rise in its place!!