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	<title>Comments on: Does Christopher Nolan Have a Woman Problem?</title>
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	<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/07/29/christopher-nolan-feminism/</link>
	<description>Overthinking It subjects the popular culture to a level of scrutiny it probably doesn&#039;t deserve.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:05:13 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Confanity</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/07/29/christopher-nolan-feminism/#comment-20992</link>
		<dc:creator>Confanity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Aug 2010 04:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=16587#comment-20992</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pretty sure it&#039;s Mol, as in Molly, an almost-stereotypically Irish name to match her Irish accent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure it&#8217;s Mol, as in Molly, an almost-stereotypically Irish name to match her Irish accent.</p>
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		<title>By: plankton</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/07/29/christopher-nolan-feminism/#comment-20988</link>
		<dc:creator>plankton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Aug 2010 15:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=16587#comment-20988</guid>
		<description>About the fridge - The dead-guy-in-a-fridge also happened in Watchmen, when Rorschach found Moloch in a fridge. That scene was lifted from a Pink Panther movie... it goes backwards and backwards.

I have my own theory. I could be wrong, but I *think* Inception is actually a deeply feminist film - but not in an easy way. I&#039;ve written it up here - http://bit.ly/aVVFqy - but in brief: Cobb and Mal were in limbo together. Mal escaped, but Cobb is still there. The inception (suicide) was not done by Cobb to Mal, but by Mal to Cobb - it was her idea, she was the protagonist, and that idea (in projection-Mal form) is still following Cobb. But he can&#039;t do it. He can&#039;t do it because his being is focussed on believing himself to be the protagonist, and maintaining that belief is where the whole plot comes from. Every not-Mal part of the movie is constructed by Cobb in his own mind, and is a McGuffin. Totems included.

One step further: I&#039;d also argue that this is a movie about movies, and our movies are gendered - the men are *always* the protagonists. Nolan is quietly pulling inception on his audience, almost invisibly planting the idea that the real protagonist can be female. 

Unfortunately, following the film&#039;s own example, inception doesn&#039;t work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>About the fridge &#8211; The dead-guy-in-a-fridge also happened in Watchmen, when Rorschach found Moloch in a fridge. That scene was lifted from a Pink Panther movie&#8230; it goes backwards and backwards.</p>
<p>I have my own theory. I could be wrong, but I *think* Inception is actually a deeply feminist film &#8211; but not in an easy way. I&#8217;ve written it up here &#8211; <a href="http://bit.ly/aVVFqy" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/aVVFqy</a> &#8211; but in brief: Cobb and Mal were in limbo together. Mal escaped, but Cobb is still there. The inception (suicide) was not done by Cobb to Mal, but by Mal to Cobb &#8211; it was her idea, she was the protagonist, and that idea (in projection-Mal form) is still following Cobb. But he can&#8217;t do it. He can&#8217;t do it because his being is focussed on believing himself to be the protagonist, and maintaining that belief is where the whole plot comes from. Every not-Mal part of the movie is constructed by Cobb in his own mind, and is a McGuffin. Totems included.</p>
<p>One step further: I&#8217;d also argue that this is a movie about movies, and our movies are gendered &#8211; the men are *always* the protagonists. Nolan is quietly pulling inception on his audience, almost invisibly planting the idea that the real protagonist can be female. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, following the film&#8217;s own example, inception doesn&#8217;t work.</p>
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		<title>By: Timothy J Swann</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/07/29/christopher-nolan-feminism/#comment-20778</link>
		<dc:creator>Timothy J Swann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 22:26:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=16587#comment-20778</guid>
		<description>Might it be possible that the Nolan Brothers (minus Matthew, who has been charged with murder, in a story the papers quickly jumped on as as twisty as the screenplays they produce) are less comfortable writing women and or ethnic minorities because they don&#039;t feel they have the right voice for them. I know I can feel that way as a writer sometimes, and if I were working on big screenplays, the temptation to write with a voice similar to my own would be higher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Might it be possible that the Nolan Brothers (minus Matthew, who has been charged with murder, in a story the papers quickly jumped on as as twisty as the screenplays they produce) are less comfortable writing women and or ethnic minorities because they don&#8217;t feel they have the right voice for them. I know I can feel that way as a writer sometimes, and if I were working on big screenplays, the temptation to write with a voice similar to my own would be higher.</p>
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		<title>By: Igib</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/07/29/christopher-nolan-feminism/#comment-20770</link>
		<dc:creator>Igib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Aug 2010 11:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=16587#comment-20770</guid>
		<description>I like Nolan and I know nothing about him but his work is sexist. I&#039;ll believe he has an obsession with dead &lt;i&gt;love interests&lt;/i&gt; when we get a story about a female protagonist haunted by the death of her male lover who is only known to the audience through her. Otherwise? Nah.

Also, I don&#039;t mind sex and nude scenes if the woman is given something to do other than be the object the man projects all his issues onto/something for him to lust over. If she has agency and occasionally gets naked, that&#039;s fine with me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Nolan and I know nothing about him but his work is sexist. I&#8217;ll believe he has an obsession with dead <i>love interests</i> when we get a story about a female protagonist haunted by the death of her male lover who is only known to the audience through her. Otherwise? Nah.</p>
<p>Also, I don&#8217;t mind sex and nude scenes if the woman is given something to do other than be the object the man projects all his issues onto/something for him to lust over. If she has agency and occasionally gets naked, that&#8217;s fine with me.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/07/29/christopher-nolan-feminism/#comment-20740</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Aug 2010 13:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=16587#comment-20740</guid>
		<description>As one of the few Batgeeks on the planet who hated The Dark Knight, I have to say that the character of Rachel is only there to be a female ideal for the hero, then die. She&#039;s an anima figure. She doesn&#039;t really have her own agenda. Nolan wants Two-Face, so Dent gets shoehorned into the plot. In doing so, an elegant solution is missed: make Rachel Two-Face. I would have blowed up Dent, scarred her, and then sent her on Dent&#039;s revenge kick. It would have been unexpected, and made good use of the character. 

Oh, and the TV show ALIAS was about a dead boyfriend, stuck in a different appliance/fixture: the bathtub.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As one of the few Batgeeks on the planet who hated The Dark Knight, I have to say that the character of Rachel is only there to be a female ideal for the hero, then die. She&#8217;s an anima figure. She doesn&#8217;t really have her own agenda. Nolan wants Two-Face, so Dent gets shoehorned into the plot. In doing so, an elegant solution is missed: make Rachel Two-Face. I would have blowed up Dent, scarred her, and then sent her on Dent&#8217;s revenge kick. It would have been unexpected, and made good use of the character. </p>
<p>Oh, and the TV show ALIAS was about a dead boyfriend, stuck in a different appliance/fixture: the bathtub.</p>
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		<title>By: What Are You Dreaming Of? &#171; Things We See</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/07/29/christopher-nolan-feminism/#comment-20695</link>
		<dc:creator>What Are You Dreaming Of? &#171; Things We See</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 15:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=16587#comment-20695</guid>
		<description>[...] interesting news about Christopher Nolan&#8217;s latest jaw-dropper Inception - that its brilliant, that its kind of sexist, that its kind of not, that one of its stars is probably bisexual. All of these I could write about. But the truth is I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] interesting news about Christopher Nolan&#8217;s latest jaw-dropper Inception &#8211; that its brilliant, that its kind of sexist, that its kind of not, that one of its stars is probably bisexual. All of these I could write about. But the truth is I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: fenzel</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/07/29/christopher-nolan-feminism/#comment-20692</link>
		<dc:creator>fenzel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 13:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=16587#comment-20692</guid>
		<description>And what does it say that, when the comic book cliche woman is stuffed into a fridge, she dies to motivate the main character, but when Indiana Jones is stuffed into a fridge, he survives a direct hit from a nuclear weapon?

Huh? HUH? What does THAT say?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what does it say that, when the comic book cliche woman is stuffed into a fridge, she dies to motivate the main character, but when Indiana Jones is stuffed into a fridge, he survives a direct hit from a nuclear weapon?</p>
<p>Huh? HUH? What does THAT say?</p>
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		<title>By: Anne Bonney</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/07/29/christopher-nolan-feminism/#comment-20683</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne Bonney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 03:03:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=16587#comment-20683</guid>
		<description>Sorry to come so late to the comments, but:

&quot;I’m sort of kidding, but I’m sort of not: men and women are different. Maybe it’s in our DNA to care more about the death of a woman than a man.&quot;

I would argue that these are all examples of how we DON&#039;T care about a woman&#039;s death as much as a man&#039;s.  In Momento and Inception, the deaths of these women are catalysts of the stories (which is a certain position of narrative power, I guess), but that reduces them to a plot point, an pure object, only experienced through a man&#039;s subjectivity.  Presenting violence against/death of a woman as the genesis of a man&#039;s story is inherently framing a woman&#039;s life as only having meaning in that it influences and affects a man.  For The Dark Knight, even though Rachel does have her own subjectivity, because this is a essentially a story about men, that takes a back seat to the symbolic aspects of her death.  It seems to me that both men who are affected by her death aren&#039;t mourning her as an individual, but as a love interest-object.

(I do want to say that I don&#039;t think this is a Nolan-specific problem, but a byproduct of the fact that most stories being told are centered on men and their experiences, with women populating the back ground and whose experiences are simply things that actually happen to the men who care about them.  See &quot;Taken&quot;, which is entirely about violence against women filtered and only given meaning through a man&#039;s perspective.)

Also, with shows like L&amp;O:SVU, it&#039;s not going out on a limb to say that the overall effect of having all these female crime victims is to actually make their lives, victimhoods and deaths of little or no value at all.  Because of the procedural, dead-hooker-of-the-week format, you aren&#039;t meant to care about them, except insofar as they affect Olivia and Elliot and the other regs.  I think this is a much more damaging kind of fridge-based sexism, because I believe it actually reinforces the negative real-life narratives of crimes against women: that they are a form of true-crime entertainment for people who think &quot;that could never happen to me or mine&quot;, and that these are things that no one but heroically dedicated law enforcement professionals could care about for any reason except passing titillation.

I don&#039;t think Nolan&#039;s dead ladies are unproblematic, but they sure as hell aren&#039;t the most sexist things out there as far as the trope goes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to come so late to the comments, but:</p>
<p>&#8220;I’m sort of kidding, but I’m sort of not: men and women are different. Maybe it’s in our DNA to care more about the death of a woman than a man.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would argue that these are all examples of how we DON&#8217;T care about a woman&#8217;s death as much as a man&#8217;s.  In Momento and Inception, the deaths of these women are catalysts of the stories (which is a certain position of narrative power, I guess), but that reduces them to a plot point, an pure object, only experienced through a man&#8217;s subjectivity.  Presenting violence against/death of a woman as the genesis of a man&#8217;s story is inherently framing a woman&#8217;s life as only having meaning in that it influences and affects a man.  For The Dark Knight, even though Rachel does have her own subjectivity, because this is a essentially a story about men, that takes a back seat to the symbolic aspects of her death.  It seems to me that both men who are affected by her death aren&#8217;t mourning her as an individual, but as a love interest-object.</p>
<p>(I do want to say that I don&#8217;t think this is a Nolan-specific problem, but a byproduct of the fact that most stories being told are centered on men and their experiences, with women populating the back ground and whose experiences are simply things that actually happen to the men who care about them.  See &#8220;Taken&#8221;, which is entirely about violence against women filtered and only given meaning through a man&#8217;s perspective.)</p>
<p>Also, with shows like L&amp;O:SVU, it&#8217;s not going out on a limb to say that the overall effect of having all these female crime victims is to actually make their lives, victimhoods and deaths of little or no value at all.  Because of the procedural, dead-hooker-of-the-week format, you aren&#8217;t meant to care about them, except insofar as they affect Olivia and Elliot and the other regs.  I think this is a much more damaging kind of fridge-based sexism, because I believe it actually reinforces the negative real-life narratives of crimes against women: that they are a form of true-crime entertainment for people who think &#8220;that could never happen to me or mine&#8221;, and that these are things that no one but heroically dedicated law enforcement professionals could care about for any reason except passing titillation.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Nolan&#8217;s dead ladies are unproblematic, but they sure as hell aren&#8217;t the most sexist things out there as far as the trope goes.</p>
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		<title>By: cat</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/07/29/christopher-nolan-feminism/#comment-20682</link>
		<dc:creator>cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Aug 2010 00:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=16587#comment-20682</guid>
		<description>&quot;a myth does not really describe a situation; rather, it tries to bring about what it declares to exist&quot; If the myth is that man is the norm, that male characters have some sort of greater depth or are more representative of the population or the species then casting predominantly male characters can&#039;t do much to help that. I love the way this article is written. There is a thesis, or a least a driving force, which is to question, and that is always a good reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;a myth does not really describe a situation; rather, it tries to bring about what it declares to exist&#8221; If the myth is that man is the norm, that male characters have some sort of greater depth or are more representative of the population or the species then casting predominantly male characters can&#8217;t do much to help that. I love the way this article is written. There is a thesis, or a least a driving force, which is to question, and that is always a good reason.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: cat</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/07/29/christopher-nolan-feminism/#comment-20680</link>
		<dc:creator>cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Aug 2010 23:36:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=16587#comment-20680</guid>
		<description>Love it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love it.</p>
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