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	<title>Comments on: The Lethal Weapon in the Hurt Locker</title>
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	<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/03/02/lethal-weapon-hurt-locker/</link>
	<description>Overthinking It subjects the popular culture to a level of scrutiny it probably doesn&#039;t deserve.</description>
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		<title>By: Scene It: PJ Harvey and Strange Days &#171; Feminist Music Geek</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/03/02/lethal-weapon-hurt-locker/#comment-15688</link>
		<dc:creator>Scene It: PJ Harvey and Strange Days &#171; Feminist Music Geek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13576#comment-15688</guid>
		<description>[...] Hurt Locker is awesome despite some minor problems and potential commonalities between it and the Lethal Weapon series, b) it was made for a pittance, and c) Bigelow is one of four women to be nominated for Best [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hurt Locker is awesome despite some minor problems and potential commonalities between it and the Lethal Weapon series, b) it was made for a pittance, and c) Bigelow is one of four women to be nominated for Best [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nona</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/03/02/lethal-weapon-hurt-locker/#comment-15677</link>
		<dc:creator>Nona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 07:11:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13576#comment-15677</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve said a lot of interesting things here but ultimately I don&#039;t think the similarity argument works.  For me the part where the comparison really breaks down is this: Riggs is the classic Broken Hero, who&#039;s aberrant behavior stems from some damage in his past, usually a loss, sometimes coupled with previously questionable behavior of his own.  A Broken Hero is ultimately saved/redeemed by connection to a person or people around him. James&#039;s aberrant behavior and his damage are pretty much one and the same and it&#039;s made quite clear that any connections he might have to other people in his life are not going to make any difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve said a lot of interesting things here but ultimately I don&#8217;t think the similarity argument works.  For me the part where the comparison really breaks down is this: Riggs is the classic Broken Hero, who&#8217;s aberrant behavior stems from some damage in his past, usually a loss, sometimes coupled with previously questionable behavior of his own.  A Broken Hero is ultimately saved/redeemed by connection to a person or people around him. James&#8217;s aberrant behavior and his damage are pretty much one and the same and it&#8217;s made quite clear that any connections he might have to other people in his life are not going to make any difference.</p>
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		<title>By: Lefty01</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/03/02/lethal-weapon-hurt-locker/#comment-15544</link>
		<dc:creator>Lefty01</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 23:50:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13576#comment-15544</guid>
		<description>I think separating these two is more than just contextualizing. I don&#039;t actually believe that &quot;war is a drug&quot; is a major thesis point of the film , I think its about much more than that, but that&#039;s not what the topic is about so I&#039;ll skip it.

Something my room mate mentioned was that the big thing for the Hurt Locker can be viewed through O&#039;Brian&#039;s The Things They Carried; which is not exactly entirely accurate about Vietnam, but is a metaphor that conveys the experiential truth of that conflict, the Hurt Locker is very similar. It shows a metaphor inside a certain context; whereas Lethal Weapon is a specific story entailing certain features. The Hurt Locker is too, to a certain degree but the difference my room mate discerned is that Lethal Weapon&#039;s story is intrinsic whereas the Hurt Locker&#039;s episodic nature was inherent not to describing the story but to describing certain features about the characters and the conflict. The Lethal Weapon is specifically structural whereas the Hurt Locker is more deconstructionist.

I think what separates The Hurt Locker from something like Generation Kill (the series form a book literally based on true events from the onset of the war) is that while the prior is hyper-realistic and the other is just realistic (because it is very close to the original source material just off form the actual events) is that the metaphor in the Hurt Locker is to convey an idea but that Generation Kill is to convey something that occurred and to show the &quot;truth&quot; in that thing, rather than the &quot;idea&quot; of Hurt Locker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think separating these two is more than just contextualizing. I don&#8217;t actually believe that &#8220;war is a drug&#8221; is a major thesis point of the film , I think its about much more than that, but that&#8217;s not what the topic is about so I&#8217;ll skip it.</p>
<p>Something my room mate mentioned was that the big thing for the Hurt Locker can be viewed through O&#8217;Brian&#8217;s The Things They Carried; which is not exactly entirely accurate about Vietnam, but is a metaphor that conveys the experiential truth of that conflict, the Hurt Locker is very similar. It shows a metaphor inside a certain context; whereas Lethal Weapon is a specific story entailing certain features. The Hurt Locker is too, to a certain degree but the difference my room mate discerned is that Lethal Weapon&#8217;s story is intrinsic whereas the Hurt Locker&#8217;s episodic nature was inherent not to describing the story but to describing certain features about the characters and the conflict. The Lethal Weapon is specifically structural whereas the Hurt Locker is more deconstructionist.</p>
<p>I think what separates The Hurt Locker from something like Generation Kill (the series form a book literally based on true events from the onset of the war) is that while the prior is hyper-realistic and the other is just realistic (because it is very close to the original source material just off form the actual events) is that the metaphor in the Hurt Locker is to convey an idea but that Generation Kill is to convey something that occurred and to show the &#8220;truth&#8221; in that thing, rather than the &#8220;idea&#8221; of Hurt Locker.</p>
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		<title>By: mlawski</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/03/02/lethal-weapon-hurt-locker/#comment-15514</link>
		<dc:creator>mlawski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Mar 2010 00:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13576#comment-15514</guid>
		<description>@fenzel and the rest: Your comment makes a lot of sense.  The fact is, I keep going back and forth on the &quot;how do we judge art?&quot; question.  I&#039;ve spent many hours of my life arguing that, yes, Jack Black&#039;s Year One is just as much &quot;art&quot; as Hamlet.  Art criticism is probably more subjective than any field on Earth, so it&#039;s easy to make these kinds of arguments.

But I still don&#039;t know.  Part of me really wants to say, &quot;Yes, definitively, 12 Angry Men is superior to The Blind Side, and anyone who disagrees is a big stupid.&quot;  And it&#039;s not just because 12 Angry Men has superior acting or a tighter script -- it&#039;s because 12 Angry Men is ABOUT something and The Blind Side is just a series of Lifetime movie cliches.  Why should movies be about something?  I&#039;m not saying that they have to be heavy-handed and preachy.  I&#039;m just saying that maybe those films that actually illuminate a truth about our real, lived lives are automatically a step up from films that operate in fantasy Hollywood-land.  (And, no, this isn&#039;t about genre: a piece of fantasy fiction like Pan&#039;s Labyrinth can be considered more &quot;true to life&quot; than a theoretically &quot;realistic&quot; film like Valentine&#039;s Day.)

Another problem with Macbeth: No Alan Rickman.  Although Alan Rickman playing Macbeth in a movie version is definitely something I could get behind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@fenzel and the rest: Your comment makes a lot of sense.  The fact is, I keep going back and forth on the &#8220;how do we judge art?&#8221; question.  I&#8217;ve spent many hours of my life arguing that, yes, Jack Black&#8217;s Year One is just as much &#8220;art&#8221; as Hamlet.  Art criticism is probably more subjective than any field on Earth, so it&#8217;s easy to make these kinds of arguments.</p>
<p>But I still don&#8217;t know.  Part of me really wants to say, &#8220;Yes, definitively, 12 Angry Men is superior to The Blind Side, and anyone who disagrees is a big stupid.&#8221;  And it&#8217;s not just because 12 Angry Men has superior acting or a tighter script &#8212; it&#8217;s because 12 Angry Men is ABOUT something and The Blind Side is just a series of Lifetime movie cliches.  Why should movies be about something?  I&#8217;m not saying that they have to be heavy-handed and preachy.  I&#8217;m just saying that maybe those films that actually illuminate a truth about our real, lived lives are automatically a step up from films that operate in fantasy Hollywood-land.  (And, no, this isn&#8217;t about genre: a piece of fantasy fiction like Pan&#8217;s Labyrinth can be considered more &#8220;true to life&#8221; than a theoretically &#8220;realistic&#8221; film like Valentine&#8217;s Day.)</p>
<p>Another problem with Macbeth: No Alan Rickman.  Although Alan Rickman playing Macbeth in a movie version is definitely something I could get behind.</p>
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		<title>By: fenzel</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/03/02/lethal-weapon-hurt-locker/#comment-15508</link>
		<dc:creator>fenzel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 22:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13576#comment-15508</guid>
		<description>@shana,

Well, MacBeth is just a script. Die Hard is a whole production. So you&#039;d have to judge an entire production of MacBeth against Die Hard. I&#039;ve seen a couple of movie and live productions of MacBeth, and while the script is better than the Die Hard script for a bunch of reasons, the productions were generally not as good as Die Hard.

I would say that if you want to point to the Wire being better than Burn Notice, you could find justifiable reasons to claim it, but I would caution against relying on its &quot;importance.&quot; The Wire does a lot of awesome things other than just be &quot;important.&quot; It isn&#039;t just a bad history of Baltimore - it has a lot of artistry. Now, I haven&#039;t seen Burn Notice, so I can&#039;t make comparisons there, but I could do a pretty detailed comparison of The Wire and The Sheild that didn&#039;t include at all whether one show was more &quot;important&quot; than the other.

I think using legitimacy or seriousness as the main criteria for quality is reductive. You don&#039;t have to rely on it. Shakespeare certainly didn&#039;t -- his plays are funny, his characters are compelling and vivacious, and he&#039;s not above telling dirty jokes. He didn&#039;t have the luxury of patting himself on the back for being important, because Shakespeare made art people actually watched for a living and didn&#039;t rely on criticial approval for his professional reward and fulfillment.

Maybe this comes from reading English literary criticism from over the centuries -- watching a particular poet fall in and out of favor based on the intellectual fashion of the time. So much of the approval or legitimacy of the academy (or Academy, &#039;natch) is just fashion -- what people happen to think is important, what advances their own goals for themselves and their art form.

So, no, I&#039;m not willing to concede that, say, Pilgrim&#039;s Progress is better than Harold and Kumar go to White Castle, just because one of them is Worthy and Important the other one is contemporary, market-driven popular entertainment.

I agree with you on The Hurt Locker, by the way. The original article had a few more paragraphs bashing it, but they weren&#039;t well thought out or necessary, and they were too relative to be worth pubilshing. The Hurt Locker is a very good movie that deserves praise, it&#039;s more a matter of whether it deserves as much praise as it is getting or not -- and at that point that&#039;s kind of irrelevant; we have to see whether it wins the big Oscars or not, because I&#039;m not sure everybody is on the same page about how much this movie is actually being praised. A lot of that is speculation about buzz. So, we&#039;ll see how it turns out in the end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@shana,</p>
<p>Well, MacBeth is just a script. Die Hard is a whole production. So you&#8217;d have to judge an entire production of MacBeth against Die Hard. I&#8217;ve seen a couple of movie and live productions of MacBeth, and while the script is better than the Die Hard script for a bunch of reasons, the productions were generally not as good as Die Hard.</p>
<p>I would say that if you want to point to the Wire being better than Burn Notice, you could find justifiable reasons to claim it, but I would caution against relying on its &#8220;importance.&#8221; The Wire does a lot of awesome things other than just be &#8220;important.&#8221; It isn&#8217;t just a bad history of Baltimore &#8211; it has a lot of artistry. Now, I haven&#8217;t seen Burn Notice, so I can&#8217;t make comparisons there, but I could do a pretty detailed comparison of The Wire and The Sheild that didn&#8217;t include at all whether one show was more &#8220;important&#8221; than the other.</p>
<p>I think using legitimacy or seriousness as the main criteria for quality is reductive. You don&#8217;t have to rely on it. Shakespeare certainly didn&#8217;t &#8212; his plays are funny, his characters are compelling and vivacious, and he&#8217;s not above telling dirty jokes. He didn&#8217;t have the luxury of patting himself on the back for being important, because Shakespeare made art people actually watched for a living and didn&#8217;t rely on criticial approval for his professional reward and fulfillment.</p>
<p>Maybe this comes from reading English literary criticism from over the centuries &#8212; watching a particular poet fall in and out of favor based on the intellectual fashion of the time. So much of the approval or legitimacy of the academy (or Academy, &#8216;natch) is just fashion &#8212; what people happen to think is important, what advances their own goals for themselves and their art form.</p>
<p>So, no, I&#8217;m not willing to concede that, say, Pilgrim&#8217;s Progress is better than Harold and Kumar go to White Castle, just because one of them is Worthy and Important the other one is contemporary, market-driven popular entertainment.</p>
<p>I agree with you on The Hurt Locker, by the way. The original article had a few more paragraphs bashing it, but they weren&#8217;t well thought out or necessary, and they were too relative to be worth pubilshing. The Hurt Locker is a very good movie that deserves praise, it&#8217;s more a matter of whether it deserves as much praise as it is getting or not &#8212; and at that point that&#8217;s kind of irrelevant; we have to see whether it wins the big Oscars or not, because I&#8217;m not sure everybody is on the same page about how much this movie is actually being praised. A lot of that is speculation about buzz. So, we&#8217;ll see how it turns out in the end.</p>
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		<title>By: mlawski</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/03/02/lethal-weapon-hurt-locker/#comment-15505</link>
		<dc:creator>mlawski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 20:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13576#comment-15505</guid>
		<description>Just lost my comment to the void, but here&#039;s the short version:

The Hurt Locker is clearly a well-made movie, and my problems with it are somewhat personal.  I&#039;m just over this type of character -- see my comments on Stokes&#039;s Overthinking Cowboy Bebop articles to see how much I want to slap Spike Spiegel across the face.  At the risk of sounding political, the Renner character is so typically &quot;American&quot; -- ooh, manly-man rugged individualist who is SO GOOD at his job that he can get away with being an asshole sociopath who gets everyone around him killed because he&#039;s too much of a Real Man to work with others or seek psychological help to get over his death wish.  It wouldn&#039;t bother me so much if these types of characters weren&#039;t always presented as super-cool anti-heroes instead of the nutjobs they so obviously are.  It&#039;s an action-adventure fantasy, that&#039;s all.

Also(and maybe I shouldn&#039;t get into this argument again), although I love many things that fall into the &quot;just entertainment&quot; category, can&#039;t we agree at a certain point that Macbeth is better in some ways than Die Hard?  (For the record, I love Die Hard, and I think Macbeth is incredibly entertaining.)  Or, on the TV front, can&#039;t we all agree that The Wire, which is both entertaining and &quot;Important,&quot; is in some ways superior to the best episodes of Burn Notice, which are incredibly entertaining but the polar opposite of &quot;Important&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just lost my comment to the void, but here&#8217;s the short version:</p>
<p>The Hurt Locker is clearly a well-made movie, and my problems with it are somewhat personal.  I&#8217;m just over this type of character &#8212; see my comments on Stokes&#8217;s Overthinking Cowboy Bebop articles to see how much I want to slap Spike Spiegel across the face.  At the risk of sounding political, the Renner character is so typically &#8220;American&#8221; &#8212; ooh, manly-man rugged individualist who is SO GOOD at his job that he can get away with being an asshole sociopath who gets everyone around him killed because he&#8217;s too much of a Real Man to work with others or seek psychological help to get over his death wish.  It wouldn&#8217;t bother me so much if these types of characters weren&#8217;t always presented as super-cool anti-heroes instead of the nutjobs they so obviously are.  It&#8217;s an action-adventure fantasy, that&#8217;s all.</p>
<p>Also(and maybe I shouldn&#8217;t get into this argument again), although I love many things that fall into the &#8220;just entertainment&#8221; category, can&#8217;t we agree at a certain point that Macbeth is better in some ways than Die Hard?  (For the record, I love Die Hard, and I think Macbeth is incredibly entertaining.)  Or, on the TV front, can&#8217;t we all agree that The Wire, which is both entertaining and &#8220;Important,&#8221; is in some ways superior to the best episodes of Burn Notice, which are incredibly entertaining but the polar opposite of &#8220;Important&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Wrather</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/03/02/lethal-weapon-hurt-locker/#comment-15504</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Wrather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 19:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13576#comment-15504</guid>
		<description>I think we can fill out the account of why &quot;just entertainment&quot; is such a crock, though this particular line of inquiry is not really germane to the point you&#039;re trying to make. Not directly, anyway.

Even more often than it&#039;s deployed by critics or diletantes to dismiss something they deem unworthy of consideration, it&#039;s deployed by normal viewers (that is to say, viewers without any skin in the art-making game) to excuse the guilt they feel for preferring movies that aren&#039;t preachy or generally considered &quot;good for you.&quot;

I think it&#039;s a tragedy that we have to apologize for our pleasures, especially when the pleasure in question is a good story well told.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we can fill out the account of why &#8220;just entertainment&#8221; is such a crock, though this particular line of inquiry is not really germane to the point you&#8217;re trying to make. Not directly, anyway.</p>
<p>Even more often than it&#8217;s deployed by critics or diletantes to dismiss something they deem unworthy of consideration, it&#8217;s deployed by normal viewers (that is to say, viewers without any skin in the art-making game) to excuse the guilt they feel for preferring movies that aren&#8217;t preachy or generally considered &#8220;good for you.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s a tragedy that we have to apologize for our pleasures, especially when the pleasure in question is a good story well told.</p>
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		<title>By: perich</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/03/02/lethal-weapon-hurt-locker/#comment-15503</link>
		<dc:creator>perich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 19:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13576#comment-15503</guid>
		<description>@mlawski and @fenzel: I think &lt;i&gt;The Hurt Locker&lt;/i&gt; is getting all the praise it deserves.  Possibly it deserves more.  And yet I agree with Fenzel&#039;s ultimate take - that by presenting the elements of a buddy cop film in a stylized, minimalist and serious way, &lt;i&gt;The Hurt Locker&lt;/i&gt; gets more respect than earlier movies that have tread the same ground.

One could make the same case about several other critical darlings - &lt;i&gt;No Country For Old Men&lt;/i&gt; vs. blaxploitation cinema, or &lt;i&gt;There Will Be Blood&lt;/i&gt; vs. &lt;i&gt;Dallas&lt;/i&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@mlawski and @fenzel: I think <i>The Hurt Locker</i> is getting all the praise it deserves.  Possibly it deserves more.  And yet I agree with Fenzel&#8217;s ultimate take &#8211; that by presenting the elements of a buddy cop film in a stylized, minimalist and serious way, <i>The Hurt Locker</i> gets more respect than earlier movies that have tread the same ground.</p>
<p>One could make the same case about several other critical darlings &#8211; <i>No Country For Old Men</i> vs. blaxploitation cinema, or <i>There Will Be Blood</i> vs. <i>Dallas</i>.</p>
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		<title>By: Sajanas</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/03/02/lethal-weapon-hurt-locker/#comment-15501</link>
		<dc:creator>Sajanas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13576#comment-15501</guid>
		<description>It is interesting to see the difference in the way Hollywood deals with madness.  It seems that too often they take the view that one needs to just talk about it with a friend and suddenly its all betters.  Having several good friends with some mental health problems, I can tell you that constant anxiety or depression don&#039;t just go away because you get hugs.  Sure, it helps, but I think since Lethal Weapon, people have come to recognize that there a physical nature for our moods and personalities, namely the neurotransmitters zooming around in our heads, sometimes developing in ways that aren&#039;t our fault.  I felt like some movies like Girl, Interrupted were shouting at some people to not be so sad all the time, to just suck it up, talk it out, and get over it.  But can there really be mind over matter, when you mind fundamentally IS matter?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is interesting to see the difference in the way Hollywood deals with madness.  It seems that too often they take the view that one needs to just talk about it with a friend and suddenly its all betters.  Having several good friends with some mental health problems, I can tell you that constant anxiety or depression don&#8217;t just go away because you get hugs.  Sure, it helps, but I think since Lethal Weapon, people have come to recognize that there a physical nature for our moods and personalities, namely the neurotransmitters zooming around in our heads, sometimes developing in ways that aren&#8217;t our fault.  I felt like some movies like Girl, Interrupted were shouting at some people to not be so sad all the time, to just suck it up, talk it out, and get over it.  But can there really be mind over matter, when you mind fundamentally IS matter?</p>
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		<title>By: mlawski</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/03/02/lethal-weapon-hurt-locker/#comment-15500</link>
		<dc:creator>mlawski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 16:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13576#comment-15500</guid>
		<description>Wow, this is weird.  Carlos had this exact idea for an OTI piece but never got around to writing it.  I guess The Hurt Locker really IS Lethal Weapon! (This is also how my dad refers to this movie.)

Also: While I wouldn&#039;t say The Hurt Locker is a bad film, it clearly doesn&#039;t deserve all the praise it&#039;s getting.  There.  I said it so you don&#039;t have to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, this is weird.  Carlos had this exact idea for an OTI piece but never got around to writing it.  I guess The Hurt Locker really IS Lethal Weapon! (This is also how my dad refers to this movie.)</p>
<p>Also: While I wouldn&#8217;t say The Hurt Locker is a bad film, it clearly doesn&#8217;t deserve all the praise it&#8217;s getting.  There.  I said it so you don&#8217;t have to.</p>
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