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	<title>Comments on: Why Nobody Cared about Dollhouse</title>
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	<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/01/29/why-nobody-cared-about-dollhouse/</link>
	<description>Overthinking It subjects the popular culture to a level of scrutiny it probably doesn&#039;t deserve.</description>
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		<title>By: kittiquin</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/01/29/why-nobody-cared-about-dollhouse/#comment-14953</link>
		<dc:creator>kittiquin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Feb 2010 16:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13005#comment-14953</guid>
		<description>I though Eliza Dushku was the weakest part of the show. She thoroughly undermined the concept of the dolls becoming different people by remaining her wooden self throughout. It was particularly frustrating to watch next to great performances from the actors playing Victor and Sierra, who managed to sell every character they played. Dushku was doomed as a headliner, she didn&#039;t have the acting ability to carry the show.

Beyond that... it wasn&#039;t well written. The interesting concept wasn&#039;t realised with much creativity. The second season was better, largely because it finally dealt with realistic applications of this kind of technology. Most of the dolls assignments were unrealistic (and nevertheless dull to watch). 

There were some great moments, but there were too many flaws for the show to ever work. 

Though to give Whedon some credit - he is an awesome director. Apart from Dushku (and Tahmoh Penikett now that I think about it), he pulled great performances out of his actors. He has consistently found amazing actors in unknowns, and given unsung actors huge breaks and wonderful characters to sink their teeth into. While Dollhouse was ultimately a doomed endeavor, I have faith in Joss Whedon - he can do better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I though Eliza Dushku was the weakest part of the show. She thoroughly undermined the concept of the dolls becoming different people by remaining her wooden self throughout. It was particularly frustrating to watch next to great performances from the actors playing Victor and Sierra, who managed to sell every character they played. Dushku was doomed as a headliner, she didn&#8217;t have the acting ability to carry the show.</p>
<p>Beyond that&#8230; it wasn&#8217;t well written. The interesting concept wasn&#8217;t realised with much creativity. The second season was better, largely because it finally dealt with realistic applications of this kind of technology. Most of the dolls assignments were unrealistic (and nevertheless dull to watch). </p>
<p>There were some great moments, but there were too many flaws for the show to ever work. </p>
<p>Though to give Whedon some credit &#8211; he is an awesome director. Apart from Dushku (and Tahmoh Penikett now that I think about it), he pulled great performances out of his actors. He has consistently found amazing actors in unknowns, and given unsung actors huge breaks and wonderful characters to sink their teeth into. While Dollhouse was ultimately a doomed endeavor, I have faith in Joss Whedon &#8211; he can do better.</p>
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		<title>By: stabbim</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/01/29/why-nobody-cared-about-dollhouse/#comment-14860</link>
		<dc:creator>stabbim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13005#comment-14860</guid>
		<description>I also found it especially confounding that the show seemed to get the mix of serial/episodic so wrong, when that was one of the greater strengths of, say, Buffy &amp; Angel. I would have thought a Whedon-helmed production would at least be successful in pulling that aspect of the storytelling off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also found it especially confounding that the show seemed to get the mix of serial/episodic so wrong, when that was one of the greater strengths of, say, Buffy &amp; Angel. I would have thought a Whedon-helmed production would at least be successful in pulling that aspect of the storytelling off.</p>
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		<title>By: Dirk Pitt</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/01/29/why-nobody-cared-about-dollhouse/#comment-14858</link>
		<dc:creator>Dirk Pitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 19:10:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13005#comment-14858</guid>
		<description>I cared. The studio meddled and turned off the very people who should have cared. But for me I watched it online or through zune etc because I don&#039;t have the time to live by the networks schedule. The new online on demand sources don&#039;t count for ratings. So the networks balk. Fools. Same thing happened with Terminator. After Lost these were the two best Dramas capital D on TV but the networks don&#039;t understand the new viewership. Good luck with your Til&#039; Death and Desperate Housewives episodes. Dimwits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cared. The studio meddled and turned off the very people who should have cared. But for me I watched it online or through zune etc because I don&#8217;t have the time to live by the networks schedule. The new online on demand sources don&#8217;t count for ratings. So the networks balk. Fools. Same thing happened with Terminator. After Lost these were the two best Dramas capital D on TV but the networks don&#8217;t understand the new viewership. Good luck with your Til&#8217; Death and Desperate Housewives episodes. Dimwits.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/01/29/why-nobody-cared-about-dollhouse/#comment-14852</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 15:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13005#comment-14852</guid>
		<description>Tim, since you don&#039;t seem as flummoxed as some of us about that twist ending, perhaps you might shed some light on the questions that Gab and I posed in the Jan.29 Open Thread? I thought it left some ENORMOUS holes in the plot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, since you don&#8217;t seem as flummoxed as some of us about that twist ending, perhaps you might shed some light on the questions that Gab and I posed in the Jan.29 Open Thread? I thought it left some ENORMOUS holes in the plot.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Peever</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/01/29/why-nobody-cared-about-dollhouse/#comment-14848</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Peever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 09:12:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13005#comment-14848</guid>
		<description>My relationship with &quot;Dollhouse&quot;: the first episode made me think, &quot;Huh, this is an interesting idea. I wonder where they go with it.&quot; The first three or four episodes were indeed &quot;meh,&quot; but then it started to get really good, in my opinion. It felt like it was doing what good, classic sci-fi does: take a hypothetical technological advancement, and in playing that scenario, highlight or question something about human experience, and what makes us who we are. The first episode I can remember saying &quot;holy shit, this is good&quot; was the one with Patton Oswalt, where it seems like he&#039;s a billionaire internet tycoon who&#039;s using the Dollhouse to rent a high class prostitute once a year. It turns out, though, that his wife died on the very day that he made it big with his internet startup, and on the anniversary of her death every year, he &quot;visits&quot; her in order to tell her the good news, and see how excited she is. 

I will admit, of course, that I enjoy the show on a level that not many other TV viewers are, such as the philosophical questions it delves into. I really enjoyed all of the twists that it threw (though I did not at first understand the twist with Boyd that comes at the end of season 2... then in the following episode I was like, &quot;Oh! ... oh shit!&quot;) When they release both seasons on DVD, boxed together, I will be buying them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My relationship with &#8220;Dollhouse&#8221;: the first episode made me think, &#8220;Huh, this is an interesting idea. I wonder where they go with it.&#8221; The first three or four episodes were indeed &#8220;meh,&#8221; but then it started to get really good, in my opinion. It felt like it was doing what good, classic sci-fi does: take a hypothetical technological advancement, and in playing that scenario, highlight or question something about human experience, and what makes us who we are. The first episode I can remember saying &#8220;holy shit, this is good&#8221; was the one with Patton Oswalt, where it seems like he&#8217;s a billionaire internet tycoon who&#8217;s using the Dollhouse to rent a high class prostitute once a year. It turns out, though, that his wife died on the very day that he made it big with his internet startup, and on the anniversary of her death every year, he &#8220;visits&#8221; her in order to tell her the good news, and see how excited she is. </p>
<p>I will admit, of course, that I enjoy the show on a level that not many other TV viewers are, such as the philosophical questions it delves into. I really enjoyed all of the twists that it threw (though I did not at first understand the twist with Boyd that comes at the end of season 2&#8230; then in the following episode I was like, &#8220;Oh! &#8230; oh shit!&#8221;) When they release both seasons on DVD, boxed together, I will be buying them.</p>
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		<title>By: Gab</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/01/29/why-nobody-cared-about-dollhouse/#comment-14813</link>
		<dc:creator>Gab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 23:05:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13005#comment-14813</guid>
		<description>Re: Millie/November

SPOILER

I knew she was going to off herself the moment she went batty and started shooting.  And when she actually did, it felt completely empty and useless.  I literally mumbled, &quot;Whoopdie-frikkin&#039;-doo.&quot;

There were a number of deaths that felt totally unnecessary or void in the series, actually.  I think, for example, even when Ballard &quot;died,&quot; I was sort of &quot;meh&quot; about it because of how it happened (and the lack of real interest I had in his character to begin with- as has been touched on by other people posting).  But the lightly-taken-death-of-a-main-character thing probably has to do with Whedon&#039;s penchant for offing important characters to &quot;prove the stakes are high&quot; or whatever.  I think he likes to do it, but he&#039;s still not good at it.  That sort of thing can work, if done right and well, but he doesn&#039;t do it right or well- and therein lies the flaw with it when he does it.  One of my biggest beefs with him was his totally, randomly offing one of THE COOLEST CHARACTERS in one of his movies.  I&#039;ve talked about it before on this site, and I&#039;m sure Whedon fans know what I mean.  Uh-huh.  THAT one.  Ham, WHAT!?  Yeah but what I&#039;m getting at is how while yeah, okay, people die in war/conflict/whatever in the real world in rather arbitrary ways; but when it&#039;s inside a show, a universe over which *someone* has ultimate control, *nothing* should be arbitrary- not death, not life, not smiles, not frowns.  It says the author/creator/whatever isn&#039;t paying attention to what they&#039;re doing, and it insinuates to me at least a little laziness on their part, or perhaps a lack of care. 

That&#039;s just my most humble of opinions, though.  Naturally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Millie/November</p>
<p>SPOILER</p>
<p>I knew she was going to off herself the moment she went batty and started shooting.  And when she actually did, it felt completely empty and useless.  I literally mumbled, &#8220;Whoopdie-frikkin&#8217;-doo.&#8221;</p>
<p>There were a number of deaths that felt totally unnecessary or void in the series, actually.  I think, for example, even when Ballard &#8220;died,&#8221; I was sort of &#8220;meh&#8221; about it because of how it happened (and the lack of real interest I had in his character to begin with- as has been touched on by other people posting).  But the lightly-taken-death-of-a-main-character thing probably has to do with Whedon&#8217;s penchant for offing important characters to &#8220;prove the stakes are high&#8221; or whatever.  I think he likes to do it, but he&#8217;s still not good at it.  That sort of thing can work, if done right and well, but he doesn&#8217;t do it right or well- and therein lies the flaw with it when he does it.  One of my biggest beefs with him was his totally, randomly offing one of THE COOLEST CHARACTERS in one of his movies.  I&#8217;ve talked about it before on this site, and I&#8217;m sure Whedon fans know what I mean.  Uh-huh.  THAT one.  Ham, WHAT!?  Yeah but what I&#8217;m getting at is how while yeah, okay, people die in war/conflict/whatever in the real world in rather arbitrary ways; but when it&#8217;s inside a show, a universe over which *someone* has ultimate control, *nothing* should be arbitrary- not death, not life, not smiles, not frowns.  It says the author/creator/whatever isn&#8217;t paying attention to what they&#8217;re doing, and it insinuates to me at least a little laziness on their part, or perhaps a lack of care. </p>
<p>That&#8217;s just my most humble of opinions, though.  Naturally.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/01/29/why-nobody-cared-about-dollhouse/#comment-14810</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 20:05:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13005#comment-14810</guid>
		<description>I find this interesting in the light of reading &quot;Everything bad is good for you&quot; - the premise of one chapter is the evolution of TV series into more complex beasts, where each episode has multiple threads within it, and a longer overall story arc. Compare that to early TV series (e.g., Dragnet) where everything was self-contained.

For me, what killed Dollhouse was getting too serious, too early. My hope was that they would start light with fun episodic, erm, episodes that built up a following broader than the fanboys before earning the right to tell the serious story. The closest comparator is really Quantum Leap. Remember that? How *fun* it was, not knowing who Sam would be each week? They could have done that with Dollhouse. The nod to the more modern series would have been similar to the X-Files (or more recently Fringe) - acknowledge a broader story arc, but don&#039;t force it on you if you aren&#039;t watching every episode.

My hypothesis is that Joss Whedon had a story to tell, and didn&#039;t have the confidence that the series would survive long enough to do it justice, hence pushing it on the audience rather than letting it play out. Ironically, this is what killed off the show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find this interesting in the light of reading &#8220;Everything bad is good for you&#8221; &#8211; the premise of one chapter is the evolution of TV series into more complex beasts, where each episode has multiple threads within it, and a longer overall story arc. Compare that to early TV series (e.g., Dragnet) where everything was self-contained.</p>
<p>For me, what killed Dollhouse was getting too serious, too early. My hope was that they would start light with fun episodic, erm, episodes that built up a following broader than the fanboys before earning the right to tell the serious story. The closest comparator is really Quantum Leap. Remember that? How *fun* it was, not knowing who Sam would be each week? They could have done that with Dollhouse. The nod to the more modern series would have been similar to the X-Files (or more recently Fringe) &#8211; acknowledge a broader story arc, but don&#8217;t force it on you if you aren&#8217;t watching every episode.</p>
<p>My hypothesis is that Joss Whedon had a story to tell, and didn&#8217;t have the confidence that the series would survive long enough to do it justice, hence pushing it on the audience rather than letting it play out. Ironically, this is what killed off the show.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/01/29/why-nobody-cared-about-dollhouse/#comment-14808</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13005#comment-14808</guid>
		<description>@Gab:
&lt;i&gt;When it comes to the purpose of those episodes and establishing interest in and care for Echo, I had thought perhaps we were supposed to care for her out of pure sympathy. This poor young woman, being totally used, how dare they? Moral indignation seemed to be what was supposed to make us give a damn- she was a victim that was so controlled she didn’t even *realize* she was a victim.&lt;/i&gt;

Gab, you might be right. Moral indignation does seem to be a big part of what&#039;s supposed to carry us through the first season. But this presents a contradiction in terms, right? Is it possible to both empathize with Caroline&#039;s victimization on a moral level &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; tune in to see the doll-of-the-week action show? Can you be entertained by her exploitation and morally outraged by it at the same time? That&#039;s a lot of cognitive dissonance.

(Not trying to tear apart your logic; it&#039;s just YET ANOTHER flaw in the premise.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Gab:<br />
<i>When it comes to the purpose of those episodes and establishing interest in and care for Echo, I had thought perhaps we were supposed to care for her out of pure sympathy. This poor young woman, being totally used, how dare they? Moral indignation seemed to be what was supposed to make us give a damn- she was a victim that was so controlled she didn’t even *realize* she was a victim.</i></p>
<p>Gab, you might be right. Moral indignation does seem to be a big part of what&#8217;s supposed to carry us through the first season. But this presents a contradiction in terms, right? Is it possible to both empathize with Caroline&#8217;s victimization on a moral level <i>and</i> tune in to see the doll-of-the-week action show? Can you be entertained by her exploitation and morally outraged by it at the same time? That&#8217;s a lot of cognitive dissonance.</p>
<p>(Not trying to tear apart your logic; it&#8217;s just YET ANOTHER flaw in the premise.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/01/29/why-nobody-cared-about-dollhouse/#comment-14806</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13005#comment-14806</guid>
		<description>SPOILERS IN THIS COMMENT:

It might not be obvious from reading this article, but I didn&#039;t hate the show either. Through most of season 1, I watched with quite a bit of anticipation waiting to see where they would take the concept, and I really genuinely enjoyed the last third of season 1.

Still, @cat:
&lt;i&gt;I just didn’t care. Did anyone else find themselves really growing attached to the characters? I didn’t. Not to include spoilers, but I’ve been told Whedon fans are used to him killing characters so, for those character(s) who died…did it tear you apart? Affect you in the slightest? Nonsensical and unexpected because they seemed nonsensical or pointless. That characterizes most of the death and most of the plot for a good chunk of the show.&lt;/i&gt;

I thought it would have done them quite a bit of good to kill of Mellie/November a lot sooner; her continued presence in season 2 just muddled the plot. The twist where Boyd is the big bad guy didn&#039;t make any sense whatsoever. Really felt like he just picked the least likely character just to have a twist there, and it made Boyd&#039;s character so flat that it was impossible to care when he died. 

But on the other hand, I did feel that tug of pathos when Topher died in the end. It made me realize, quite suddenly, that he and Adele were the only two characters in the whole show that I really cared about. And the writers seemed to spend most of season 2 actively trying to make us hate Adele.

@Gab:
&lt;i&gt;One thing I do remember from the buzz about the first season was how Whedon tried to emphasize that it wasn’t until episode six that it would get “good.”&lt;/i&gt;

I was unaware that he had said that, but that is EXACTLY what the main article is about. When you&#039;re trying to attract a new audience, you want to put your best foot forward, and it seems that someone (Wrather, we could argue for hours whether it was Whedon, Fox, or both) made a conscious decision to lead the show with 6-8 episodes of dull material that they seem to think they had to get out of the way &lt;i&gt;before&lt;/i&gt; amping up to the good stuff that we&#039;d been waiting for all along. Did they honestly believe that &lt;i&gt;any audience in the world&lt;/i&gt; would put up with that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SPOILERS IN THIS COMMENT:</p>
<p>It might not be obvious from reading this article, but I didn&#8217;t hate the show either. Through most of season 1, I watched with quite a bit of anticipation waiting to see where they would take the concept, and I really genuinely enjoyed the last third of season 1.</p>
<p>Still, @cat:<br />
<i>I just didn’t care. Did anyone else find themselves really growing attached to the characters? I didn’t. Not to include spoilers, but I’ve been told Whedon fans are used to him killing characters so, for those character(s) who died…did it tear you apart? Affect you in the slightest? Nonsensical and unexpected because they seemed nonsensical or pointless. That characterizes most of the death and most of the plot for a good chunk of the show.</i></p>
<p>I thought it would have done them quite a bit of good to kill of Mellie/November a lot sooner; her continued presence in season 2 just muddled the plot. The twist where Boyd is the big bad guy didn&#8217;t make any sense whatsoever. Really felt like he just picked the least likely character just to have a twist there, and it made Boyd&#8217;s character so flat that it was impossible to care when he died. </p>
<p>But on the other hand, I did feel that tug of pathos when Topher died in the end. It made me realize, quite suddenly, that he and Adele were the only two characters in the whole show that I really cared about. And the writers seemed to spend most of season 2 actively trying to make us hate Adele.</p>
<p>@Gab:<br />
<i>One thing I do remember from the buzz about the first season was how Whedon tried to emphasize that it wasn’t until episode six that it would get “good.”</i></p>
<p>I was unaware that he had said that, but that is EXACTLY what the main article is about. When you&#8217;re trying to attract a new audience, you want to put your best foot forward, and it seems that someone (Wrather, we could argue for hours whether it was Whedon, Fox, or both) made a conscious decision to lead the show with 6-8 episodes of dull material that they seem to think they had to get out of the way <i>before</i> amping up to the good stuff that we&#8217;d been waiting for all along. Did they honestly believe that <i>any audience in the world</i> would put up with that?</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Nixon</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2010/01/29/why-nobody-cared-about-dollhouse/#comment-14802</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Nixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 08:15:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=13005#comment-14802</guid>
		<description>@cat I thought it was stupid with Millie, but it still happened.  But, there&#039;s the video of Bennet saying essentially: the things you learned the hard way are more dominant in your brain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@cat I thought it was stupid with Millie, but it still happened.  But, there&#8217;s the video of Bennet saying essentially: the things you learned the hard way are more dominant in your brain.</p>
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