Comments on: 30 Rock: The Most Liberal Show on TV?

By: feminist blogs in english » » Tina Fey doesn’t care about your moral uplift

Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:48:09 +0000

[...] Overthinking It tackles the all-important question that consumes many of my politically astute friends who are also fans of “30 Rock”: where does the show’s politics lay? (They also recently had me on as a guest podcast panel member again, always fun.) On its surface, “30 Rock” seems liberal, but if you’re a fan who watches every episode, you start to get the creeping feeling that the show endorses reactionary politics. Mlawski marshals the evidence: Liz isn’t as liberal as she seems, Jack usually wins, the show did that unforgiveable and “South Park"-esque episode taking a shot at affirmative action. I’ve personally wrestled with this question repeatedly. Is the show trenchant liberal satire, or is it so puffed up with wealthy privilege that they’re starting to drift into apologies for weird conservative politics? But reading the Overthinking It piece, I realized that the answer is simple: Neither. The show isn’t liberal or conservative so much as it’s cynical. [...]

By: Gab

Gab — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 00:44:23 +0000

The four-quadrant political spectrum thing is easily found and thoroughly explained on this website:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYqQgtJ48Ws

I’m sure that’s what you’re talking about, Delius.

By: Delius

Delius — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 22:11:07 +0000

WRT to the political spectrum, there is much better (though admittedly still approximate) way than the one-dimensional “Conservative-Liberal” line. Take two dimensions, the X representing your tolerance for government intervention in business, the Y representing the same for government intervention in personal affairs. The upper left-hand quandrant (against intervention in business, for it in personal affairs) represents conservatives. The lower-right hand quadrant (for it in business, against it in personal) is liberal. The lower-left (against it in both) is libertarian. The upper right, with a preference for govermnet intervention in both business and personal affairs, is a strange beast. I’d call it reactionary.

By: Diana

Diana — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:15:00 +0000

I agree with Stokes’ comment on the perspective embodied by the show, and go a step further to say that Liz Lemon is a wickedly funny character precisely *because* she’s not a particularly likable character from a leftie perspective — she’s easily swayed from her ideals by the promise or suggestion of financial, personal, and social gain, she benefits from many of the tenets and achievements of feminism but does not herself embody them, and she fits a host of negative stereotypes of what progressive feminists are: she’s straight, is not particularly interested in sex, thinks about having babies all the time, and enlists the help of men and/or manipulates them to achieve her goals even though her idealist side, when it’s expressed, would probably argue against these actions in the abstract. So while a lot of the *characters* are not liberal, to me the *show* is, because it makes both conservatives and half-assed liberals look hilariously foolish for being either of those things. In particular, the episode “Succession” shows Liz basically selling out for a huge raise, only to come across as a huge jerk when she tells her staff to screw off, then gets drunk at the Rainbow Room meeting, nods agreeably when Jack explains “It’s business drunk. It’s like rich drunk. Either way it’s legal to drive.” She then visits her writers at work and slurs “Hi nerds! Who’s got two thumbs, speaks limited French, and hasn’t cried once today? This moi!” What is that but a really acid critique of the liberal (until my paycheck got bigger) mindset? Weak, willing to do lots of kind of suspicious things to feel safe instead of ethical, and ultimately kind of pitiable. But it has to be done in a subversive way that plays well to a wide audience, so there are lots of other potential interpretations as well.

By: Ryan

Ryan — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:21:27 +0000

Jack is definitely an Ayn Rand-style conservative, not a traditional family values neocon – his ultimate rejection of the people of the south at the end of the episode after being insulted by the supremely unfunny/racist Jeff Dunham clearly shows how transparent and fake his love affair with “real America” is. A touch of Palin-mania, maybe?

Regardless, his love of the South is a front and he returns to his selfish, Randian mode very quickly.

By: Victoria

Victoria — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:52:33 +0000

@mlawski Oh no, I’m a big fan of 30 Rock. I would propose to Tina Fey if gay marriage were legal in New York. Also polygamy.

By: mlawski

mlawski — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:15:48 +0000

@Tom P: I believe the words used in the episode were, “I want to be treated like everyone else,” not “I want to be treated like one of the guys.” Sorry for the rant. That episode just irks me. I identify with Liz Lemon – we have the same socks and “bicurious shoes,” and some people say we look alike – so I don’t want her to be involved in anti-feminist plots.

@Victoria: Point taken. It’s been a while since I’ve seen the pilot. By the way, if you just started watching 30 Rock for the first time, give it some leeway. The first half of the first season is okay, and I’d even say that some of the episodes are just plain bad. Then the show gets better. Much better. (And then worse again in season four, but maybe that’s just me.)

By: Victoria

Victoria — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:04:10 +0000

Another comment – I’d just like to point that I just watched the pilot today, and Liz Lemon didn’t necessarily have a “fine time” at the strip club. She gave the stripper money for “computer classes” and spends the entire time rolling her eyes at Tracey Jordan. So she’s at least consistent in that way.

By: Tom P

Tom P — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:08:33 +0000

I didn’t see the episode, so I don’t know the direct context but — was it based around her desire to be treated like “one of the guys” or “be treated the same as everyone else”? If that was the case, then it was probably an over the top goof on “be careful what you wish for.” Yes, a group of male comedy-writers working in an office together would probably try to outfart each other. They’d probably find it funny. They wouldn’t do it with a woman around. I think if you were to post the poll, most people would prefer to work in a fart free environment, but most men would find an inappropriate fart-off amongst their officemates to be funny. Asked if they would have an inappropriate fart-off with a woman in the room, probably not.

There’s a difference between “being taken seriously and treated as an equal in the political and professional world” which every -person- equally deserves and “being one of the guys” which is, yes, getting farted in front of and going to strip clubs. They are not the same thing. I don’t think any of those things create a direct leap to “women shouldn’t be allowed in the workplace, should get paid less, get abortions, or commit murder/suicides to be taken seriously.”

By: Victoria

Victoria — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:07:17 +0000

Great article. I’m really curious about the placing of some of those television programs as well. The Hills is conservative? Judging from the limited amount of Hills-related knowledge that somehow forced its way into my brain without my consent, is there any place for politics on that show at all?