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	<title>Comments on: Overthinking Mad Men Season 3</title>
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	<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/11/10/overthinking-mad-men-season-3/</link>
	<description>Overthinking It subjects the popular culture to a level of scrutiny it probably doesn&#039;t deserve.</description>
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		<title>By: Patricia</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/11/10/overthinking-mad-men-season-3/#comment-13301</link>
		<dc:creator>Patricia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 14:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=11098#comment-13301</guid>
		<description>Henry is a very strange character. Too perfect but not...Rockefeller married a  divorced woman and won the govenorship. What if Henry does the same but becomes Vice president. Or even president..a nixionian president. I think Henry has a secret agenda.  One that he may not be aware of yet. Coveting the wife of the most masculine man on the planet may be his bid for masculinity. Whatever,  Betty&#039;s social standing and inheritance will grease his political wheels. Betty will probably become an alcoholic. A Joan Kennedy or Betty ford. I don&#039;t think we&#039;ve seen all of Don&#039;s secrets yet. Don is Superman.  The observations about the Daisy commercial are terrific. But I don&#039;t think our team will be behind it. That team needs to stay intact . Bigger fish to fry. Perhaps apple&#039;s ground breaking commercial. When the turbulance of the 70&#039;s continues we will see feminism peak and personify itself in one of our characters. We&#039;ll see civil rights. In full bloom.    Assassinations, war, protests , free sex and drugs... Watergate... The list is obvious. The way our characters willchange during changing times is not so obvious,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Henry is a very strange character. Too perfect but not&#8230;Rockefeller married a  divorced woman and won the govenorship. What if Henry does the same but becomes Vice president. Or even president..a nixionian president. I think Henry has a secret agenda.  One that he may not be aware of yet. Coveting the wife of the most masculine man on the planet may be his bid for masculinity. Whatever,  Betty&#8217;s social standing and inheritance will grease his political wheels. Betty will probably become an alcoholic. A Joan Kennedy or Betty ford. I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ve seen all of Don&#8217;s secrets yet. Don is Superman.  The observations about the Daisy commercial are terrific. But I don&#8217;t think our team will be behind it. That team needs to stay intact . Bigger fish to fry. Perhaps apple&#8217;s ground breaking commercial. When the turbulance of the 70&#8217;s continues we will see feminism peak and personify itself in one of our characters. We&#8217;ll see civil rights. In full bloom.    Assassinations, war, protests , free sex and drugs&#8230; Watergate&#8230; The list is obvious. The way our characters willchange during changing times is not so obvious,</p>
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		<title>By: perich</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/11/10/overthinking-mad-men-season-3/#comment-13250</link>
		<dc:creator>perich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 03:39:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=11098#comment-13250</guid>
		<description>@Kevin: I can see SCDP going with Goldwater.  S1 established Bert Cooper as more conservative than the rest of the company (he&#039;s a personal friend of Ayn Rand); I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if he knows someone who knows the Senator.

Also note: the 1964 RNC is also the first time a middle-aged actor named Ronald Reagan takes the political spotlight, making a famous speech that puts him on the path toward the governorship of California in &#039;66.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kevin: I can see SCDP going with Goldwater.  S1 established Bert Cooper as more conservative than the rest of the company (he&#8217;s a personal friend of Ayn Rand); I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if he knows someone who knows the Senator.</p>
<p>Also note: the 1964 RNC is also the first time a middle-aged actor named Ronald Reagan takes the political spotlight, making a famous speech that puts him on the path toward the governorship of California in &#8216;66.</p>
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		<title>By: KBrack</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/11/10/overthinking-mad-men-season-3/#comment-13249</link>
		<dc:creator>KBrack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=11098#comment-13249</guid>
		<description>@katie, kevin: the first thing i hoped for when Don was searching for employees to come with him to SCDP was the return of sal. he was always one of my favourite characters.

unfortunately, the reason sal had to leave was because of Lucky Strike.  Lucky Strike was a large enough client to Sterling Cooper that without them, they would go out of business.  Now with fewer clients, Lucky Strike is the core of SCDP&#039;s business.  Unless the writers decide to ignore this, I can&#039;t see Sal coming back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@katie, kevin: the first thing i hoped for when Don was searching for employees to come with him to SCDP was the return of sal. he was always one of my favourite characters.</p>
<p>unfortunately, the reason sal had to leave was because of Lucky Strike.  Lucky Strike was a large enough client to Sterling Cooper that without them, they would go out of business.  Now with fewer clients, Lucky Strike is the core of SCDP&#8217;s business.  Unless the writers decide to ignore this, I can&#8217;t see Sal coming back.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/11/10/overthinking-mad-men-season-3/#comment-13229</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 23:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=11098#comment-13229</guid>
		<description>@Matthew and Sheely: I think you&#039;re *both* on to something: Barry Goldwater will become SCDP&#039;s client, not Rockefeller; and toward the end of the season, it will be the Johnson campaign&#039;s &quot;Daisy&quot; ad that will utterly destroy the work of SCDP for Goldwater.

That&#039;s because the firm that created the &quot;Daisy&quot; ad was real-world DDB -- the same firm that came up with the famous &quot;Think Small&quot; Volkswagen ads... the same campaign that Don and his colleagues ridiculed back in S1.  A campaign that was voted many years later as the *best* advertising campaign ever made.  It would be so ironic -- and so MAD MEN -- for the competition to once again be ahead of the curve and show SC (now SCDP) how much they still have to adapt to the changing times.

Of course, the one thing that would be hard getting past is the fact that Goldwater was so hugely unsympathetic... still, wouldn&#039;t it be great to see the boys win the battle (against Rockefeller, and by extension Francis &amp; Betty), but lose the war once again to DDB?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matthew and Sheely: I think you&#8217;re *both* on to something: Barry Goldwater will become SCDP&#8217;s client, not Rockefeller; and toward the end of the season, it will be the Johnson campaign&#8217;s &#8220;Daisy&#8221; ad that will utterly destroy the work of SCDP for Goldwater.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s because the firm that created the &#8220;Daisy&#8221; ad was real-world DDB &#8212; the same firm that came up with the famous &#8220;Think Small&#8221; Volkswagen ads&#8230; the same campaign that Don and his colleagues ridiculed back in S1.  A campaign that was voted many years later as the *best* advertising campaign ever made.  It would be so ironic &#8212; and so MAD MEN &#8212; for the competition to once again be ahead of the curve and show SC (now SCDP) how much they still have to adapt to the changing times.</p>
<p>Of course, the one thing that would be hard getting past is the fact that Goldwater was so hugely unsympathetic&#8230; still, wouldn&#8217;t it be great to see the boys win the battle (against Rockefeller, and by extension Francis &amp; Betty), but lose the war once again to DDB?</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Belinkie</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/11/10/overthinking-mad-men-season-3/#comment-13227</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Belinkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 20:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=11098#comment-13227</guid>
		<description>I just realized something interesting. The election of 1964 featured one of the most important TV ads of all time. Let me quote from Wikipedia:

&quot;A Democratic campaign advertisement known as Daisy showed a young girl counting daisy petals, from one to ten. Immediately following this scene, a voiceover counted down: ten, nine, eight,…three, two, one. The child&#039;s face was shown as a still photograph followed by images of nuclear explosions and mushroom clouds. The campaign advertisement ended with a plea to vote for Johnson, implying that Goldwater (whose name was not mentioned) would provoke a nuclear war if elected. The advertisement, which featured only a few spoken words of narrative and relied on imagery for its emotional impact, was one of the most provocative moments in American political campaign history, and many analysts credit it as being the birth of the modern style of &quot;negative political ads&quot; on television. The ad only aired once, and was immediately pulled, but then was shown numerous times by television stations.&quot;

I&#039;m not saying Don writes it. I&#039;m just saying the timing is right. And since he clearly was a Kennedy supporter, there&#039;s nothing far-fetched about him working for the democratic administration. Actually, it might be really cool to have Don visit the White House to discuss strategy (not with the President himself, but with some important-looking bigwigs in nice suits).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just realized something interesting. The election of 1964 featured one of the most important TV ads of all time. Let me quote from Wikipedia:</p>
<p>&#8220;A Democratic campaign advertisement known as Daisy showed a young girl counting daisy petals, from one to ten. Immediately following this scene, a voiceover counted down: ten, nine, eight,…three, two, one. The child&#8217;s face was shown as a still photograph followed by images of nuclear explosions and mushroom clouds. The campaign advertisement ended with a plea to vote for Johnson, implying that Goldwater (whose name was not mentioned) would provoke a nuclear war if elected. The advertisement, which featured only a few spoken words of narrative and relied on imagery for its emotional impact, was one of the most provocative moments in American political campaign history, and many analysts credit it as being the birth of the modern style of &#8220;negative political ads&#8221; on television. The ad only aired once, and was immediately pulled, but then was shown numerous times by television stations.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying Don writes it. I&#8217;m just saying the timing is right. And since he clearly was a Kennedy supporter, there&#8217;s nothing far-fetched about him working for the democratic administration. Actually, it might be really cool to have Don visit the White House to discuss strategy (not with the President himself, but with some important-looking bigwigs in nice suits).</p>
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		<title>By: Sheely</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/11/10/overthinking-mad-men-season-3/#comment-13225</link>
		<dc:creator>Sheely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=11098#comment-13225</guid>
		<description>@Kevin- Maybe they go the other direction with this, and SCDP will be hired by the Goldwater campaign to take down Rockefeller.  It would have the effect of bringing Don and Henry/Betty into a collision course without requiring quite as many contortions.


@Perich- That was some amazing fake Sterling dialogue- I can totally hear it coming right out of John Slattery&#039;s mouth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kevin- Maybe they go the other direction with this, and SCDP will be hired by the Goldwater campaign to take down Rockefeller.  It would have the effect of bringing Don and Henry/Betty into a collision course without requiring quite as many contortions.</p>
<p>@Perich- That was some amazing fake Sterling dialogue- I can totally hear it coming right out of John Slattery&#8217;s mouth.</p>
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		<title>By: perich</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/11/10/overthinking-mad-men-season-3/#comment-13223</link>
		<dc:creator>perich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=11098#comment-13223</guid>
		<description>@Kevin: there&#039;s at least the opportunity for Henry and Roger to have a heart-to-heart over Old Fashioneds at some very reputable club.

&quot;Hank.  Buddy.  Look, I understand your concern.  But if anyone can keep Don Draper under control, it&#039;s me.  All right?  Now let&#039;s get some cheesecake.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kevin: there&#8217;s at least the opportunity for Henry and Roger to have a heart-to-heart over Old Fashioneds at some very reputable club.</p>
<p>&#8220;Hank.  Buddy.  Look, I understand your concern.  But if anyone can keep Don Draper under control, it&#8217;s me.  All right?  Now let&#8217;s get some cheesecake.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/11/10/overthinking-mad-men-season-3/#comment-13221</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 07:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=11098#comment-13221</guid>
		<description>@Matthew -- Thanks for the kind words!  What makes me doubt the Francis theory is that, well... Francis KNOWS Draper works there -- hell, he&#039;s now the &#039;D&#039; in SCDP, after all --  so you have to think it would be, uh... just ever-so slightly AWKWARD for him to show up, hat in hand, wanting to hire Betty&#039;s ex to promote the campaign.  Pretty weird.

I&#039;m thinking they have to have a way around this -- maybe it&#039;s Rockefeller himself who wants to use SCDP and Francis has no say.  But they HAVE to find a way for Don and Betty&#039;s paths to cross.  This seems like the most logical way to me...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matthew &#8212; Thanks for the kind words!  What makes me doubt the Francis theory is that, well&#8230; Francis KNOWS Draper works there &#8212; hell, he&#8217;s now the &#8216;D&#8217; in SCDP, after all &#8212;  so you have to think it would be, uh&#8230; just ever-so slightly AWKWARD for him to show up, hat in hand, wanting to hire Betty&#8217;s ex to promote the campaign.  Pretty weird.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m thinking they have to have a way around this &#8212; maybe it&#8217;s Rockefeller himself who wants to use SCDP and Francis has no say.  But they HAVE to find a way for Don and Betty&#8217;s paths to cross.  This seems like the most logical way to me&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Belinkie</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/11/10/overthinking-mad-men-season-3/#comment-13220</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Belinkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Nov 2009 05:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=11098#comment-13220</guid>
		<description>@Kevin -

That&#039;s some sharp thinking! Don getting stuck working for the man who stole his wife seems totally plausible. And I&#039;m intrigued by the idea of Duck hiring Cosgrove and Kinsey. You&#039;re implying there that Sterling Cooper (the old one) basically ceases to exist, and everyone who was left behind scatters to the four winds. I hadn&#039;t thought about it, but it makes sense. ALL the agency&#039;s partners just quit, and took a huge chunk of their business with them. It seems likely that whatever company is stuck owning that place is just going to cut their losses and walk away.

And actually, that puts the entire episode in a new light. When Draper, Sterling, and Cooper approach these underlings and offer them the chance to get in on this new agency, they weren&#039;t asking them to take a risk, really. They were letting them know that Sterling Cooper was already dead and they were as good as laid off, and then offering them a new job. The REAL risk for these people would be turning Don down, and sticking with an agency that all the name partners are actively trying to destroy.

Hey Kevin, if it turns out that you&#039;re right, and Francis DOES go to SCDP, come back to this comment thread to take a victory lap, okay?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kevin -</p>
<p>That&#8217;s some sharp thinking! Don getting stuck working for the man who stole his wife seems totally plausible. And I&#8217;m intrigued by the idea of Duck hiring Cosgrove and Kinsey. You&#8217;re implying there that Sterling Cooper (the old one) basically ceases to exist, and everyone who was left behind scatters to the four winds. I hadn&#8217;t thought about it, but it makes sense. ALL the agency&#8217;s partners just quit, and took a huge chunk of their business with them. It seems likely that whatever company is stuck owning that place is just going to cut their losses and walk away.</p>
<p>And actually, that puts the entire episode in a new light. When Draper, Sterling, and Cooper approach these underlings and offer them the chance to get in on this new agency, they weren&#8217;t asking them to take a risk, really. They were letting them know that Sterling Cooper was already dead and they were as good as laid off, and then offering them a new job. The REAL risk for these people would be turning Don down, and sticking with an agency that all the name partners are actively trying to destroy.</p>
<p>Hey Kevin, if it turns out that you&#8217;re right, and Francis DOES go to SCDP, come back to this comment thread to take a victory lap, okay?</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/11/10/overthinking-mad-men-season-3/#comment-13215</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 23:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=11098#comment-13215</guid>
		<description>@perich and katie: I assume SCDP will end up working on the Rockefeller campaign, since Henry Francis is both Nelson&#039;s right-hand man and close to Roger.  That&#039;s how Don and Betty will end up back in the same orbit in S4 -- Don has to swallow his pride and work on the account, the client basically being the man who stole his wife... now THAT is some good conflict!  (Plus, since Rockefeller was virtually destroyed by Goldwater in the GOP primaries... I&#039;m sure many both outside the agency and in will blame Don, saying he wasn&#039;t able to put his personal issues aside to help craft a winning campaign.)

I also wouldn&#039;t call Duck a loose end to be tied up -- I imagine he&#039;ll hire Cosgrove and Kinsey (at the least) to compete with SCDP.

Also looking forward to having Sal back, as I&#039;m sure is inevitable in the first episode or two!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@perich and katie: I assume SCDP will end up working on the Rockefeller campaign, since Henry Francis is both Nelson&#8217;s right-hand man and close to Roger.  That&#8217;s how Don and Betty will end up back in the same orbit in S4 &#8212; Don has to swallow his pride and work on the account, the client basically being the man who stole his wife&#8230; now THAT is some good conflict!  (Plus, since Rockefeller was virtually destroyed by Goldwater in the GOP primaries&#8230; I&#8217;m sure many both outside the agency and in will blame Don, saying he wasn&#8217;t able to put his personal issues aside to help craft a winning campaign.)</p>
<p>I also wouldn&#8217;t call Duck a loose end to be tied up &#8212; I imagine he&#8217;ll hire Cosgrove and Kinsey (at the least) to compete with SCDP.</p>
<p>Also looking forward to having Sal back, as I&#8217;m sure is inevitable in the first episode or two!</p>
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