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	<title>Comments on: Overthinking Lost: Episodes 2.17-2.24</title>
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	<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/07/20/overthinking-lost-4/</link>
	<description>Overthinking It subjects the popular culture to a level of scrutiny it probably doesn&#039;t deserve.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:05:13 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/07/20/overthinking-lost-4/#comment-10921</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 16:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8993#comment-10921</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad you&#039;re looking at my question so much! A few more things...

There is a question of fate vs. free will. Do the characters have a specific fate? And if so, who controls (or controlled) that fate? What if the characters themselves created (or are creating) that fate... then it would be free will, right? Or not...

There is a very unique way of looking at this question with an answer I have never heard suggested before. Problem is, it only becomes clear much later in the show. But it doesn&#039;t hurt to toss around in your head a bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad you&#8217;re looking at my question so much! A few more things&#8230;</p>
<p>There is a question of fate vs. free will. Do the characters have a specific fate? And if so, who controls (or controlled) that fate? What if the characters themselves created (or are creating) that fate&#8230; then it would be free will, right? Or not&#8230;</p>
<p>There is a very unique way of looking at this question with an answer I have never heard suggested before. Problem is, it only becomes clear much later in the show. But it doesn&#8217;t hurt to toss around in your head a bit.</p>
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		<title>By: mlawski</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/07/20/overthinking-lost-4/#comment-10857</link>
		<dc:creator>mlawski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8993#comment-10857</guid>
		<description>@Kevin: Well, I only said &quot;seems to have been wrong&quot; because A) I&#039;m still not sure what would have happened if Desmond hadn&#039;t turned the failsafe key--sure, the world could have ended, but the force also could have just destroyed the island, or it could have done something else entirely like send the island through a black hole so everyone could help the crew of the starship Enterprise. And B) I don&#039;t think this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Dharma Initiative is telling the complete truth about the nature of their work on their orientation videos.  We also learned in &quot;Live Together, Die Alone&quot; that the pneumatic tubes from the Pearl station go directly to the middle of nowhere so the notebooks could be read by exactly no one.  It does seem still to me that at least part of their work is a psychological experiment--otherwise, why have all the video cameras everywhere?

As for why I didn&#039;t bring up the very end of the episode with Penny... I just forgot :)  Thanks for reminding me.

@Everyone else: Thanks for all the great comments.  I&#039;m going to put off answering a lot of your questions until next week&#039;s article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Kevin: Well, I only said &#8220;seems to have been wrong&#8221; because A) I&#8217;m still not sure what would have happened if Desmond hadn&#8217;t turned the failsafe key&#8211;sure, the world could have ended, but the force also could have just destroyed the island, or it could have done something else entirely like send the island through a black hole so everyone could help the crew of the starship Enterprise. And B) I don&#8217;t think this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Dharma Initiative is telling the complete truth about the nature of their work on their orientation videos.  We also learned in &#8220;Live Together, Die Alone&#8221; that the pneumatic tubes from the Pearl station go directly to the middle of nowhere so the notebooks could be read by exactly no one.  It does seem still to me that at least part of their work is a psychological experiment&#8211;otherwise, why have all the video cameras everywhere?</p>
<p>As for why I didn&#8217;t bring up the very end of the episode with Penny&#8230; I just forgot :)  Thanks for reminding me.</p>
<p>@Everyone else: Thanks for all the great comments.  I&#8217;m going to put off answering a lot of your questions until next week&#8217;s article.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/07/20/overthinking-lost-4/#comment-10856</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8993#comment-10856</guid>
		<description>Just thought I&#039;d point out a few things that it looks like you may have missed.  I&#039;m not sure if they&#039;re important and maybe you noticed them but didn&#039;t think they were worth mentioning, but here it goes:

Kelvin is the same person that taught Sayid how to torture in his flashback from &quot;One of Them&quot;.  Also, Kate&#039;s dad (not the real one she blew up, but the one from the army) interrogates Sayid in this episode.  This one I&#039;m fairly certain is just another of those connections they like to throw in, like Sawyer and Ana Lucia meeting Jack&#039;s dad or Eko investigating a miracle involving the daughter of the psychic that told Claire to go to L.A.

The second thing I&#039;d like to point out I think is slightly more important and may affect your opinion of the smoke monster from last week&#039;s post.  In &quot;The 23rd Psalm&quot; when Mr. Eko is staring down the smoke monster, the camera pans through the smoke and if you look closely at the flashes of light you&#039;ll see moments from Eko&#039;s past inside.  So yeah.  There you go.  

I thought there was something else too but I can&#039;t remember it now...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just thought I&#8217;d point out a few things that it looks like you may have missed.  I&#8217;m not sure if they&#8217;re important and maybe you noticed them but didn&#8217;t think they were worth mentioning, but here it goes:</p>
<p>Kelvin is the same person that taught Sayid how to torture in his flashback from &#8220;One of Them&#8221;.  Also, Kate&#8217;s dad (not the real one she blew up, but the one from the army) interrogates Sayid in this episode.  This one I&#8217;m fairly certain is just another of those connections they like to throw in, like Sawyer and Ana Lucia meeting Jack&#8217;s dad or Eko investigating a miracle involving the daughter of the psychic that told Claire to go to L.A.</p>
<p>The second thing I&#8217;d like to point out I think is slightly more important and may affect your opinion of the smoke monster from last week&#8217;s post.  In &#8220;The 23rd Psalm&#8221; when Mr. Eko is staring down the smoke monster, the camera pans through the smoke and if you look closely at the flashes of light you&#8217;ll see moments from Eko&#8217;s past inside.  So yeah.  There you go.  </p>
<p>I thought there was something else too but I can&#8217;t remember it now&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/07/20/overthinking-lost-4/#comment-10845</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 06:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8993#comment-10845</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a little confused by your recap of &quot;Live Together, Die Alone&quot;... you finish with:

&quot;And my favorite part: Locke says, “Screw this,” and lets the hatch timer run out.  Sure, he seems to have been wrong—some very bad seeming electromagnetic discharge makes the whole island shake and the sky turns purplish white—but the world doesn’t end, either.  So score one for Locke?&quot;

It&#039;s clear from the episode that tragedy was averted only by Desmond turning the failsafe key and destroying the Swan station (pieces of the Swan get blown all the way to the beach -- the hatch door, etc.), so it must&#039;ve been one helluva force!  And by episode&#039;s end Des, Locke and Eko are still missing.  So you can&#039;t say Locke SEEMS to have been wrong -- he&#039;s most definitely wrong, and pushing the button in fact DID have a purpose and was NOT just a psychological experiment.  The only reason the world (or at least, the island) didn&#039;t end is thanks to dear ol&#039; Des.

And I&#039;m also surprised you didn&#039;t bring up the actual final scene from the season finale: the electromagnetic disturbance Locke caused (and Des fixed) was picked up by a research station far, far away... allowing the island to be located... by a crew working for Penelope Widmore.  So that definitively wraps up at least one big theory debated in the first two seasons (are the Oceanic survivors actually dead and in Purgatory/Limbo/whatever, for starters)... since that scene sets up Season 3, I was surprised that didn&#039;t get any mention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a little confused by your recap of &#8220;Live Together, Die Alone&#8221;&#8230; you finish with:</p>
<p>&#8220;And my favorite part: Locke says, “Screw this,” and lets the hatch timer run out.  Sure, he seems to have been wrong—some very bad seeming electromagnetic discharge makes the whole island shake and the sky turns purplish white—but the world doesn’t end, either.  So score one for Locke?&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s clear from the episode that tragedy was averted only by Desmond turning the failsafe key and destroying the Swan station (pieces of the Swan get blown all the way to the beach &#8212; the hatch door, etc.), so it must&#8217;ve been one helluva force!  And by episode&#8217;s end Des, Locke and Eko are still missing.  So you can&#8217;t say Locke SEEMS to have been wrong &#8212; he&#8217;s most definitely wrong, and pushing the button in fact DID have a purpose and was NOT just a psychological experiment.  The only reason the world (or at least, the island) didn&#8217;t end is thanks to dear ol&#8217; Des.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;m also surprised you didn&#8217;t bring up the actual final scene from the season finale: the electromagnetic disturbance Locke caused (and Des fixed) was picked up by a research station far, far away&#8230; allowing the island to be located&#8230; by a crew working for Penelope Widmore.  So that definitively wraps up at least one big theory debated in the first two seasons (are the Oceanic survivors actually dead and in Purgatory/Limbo/whatever, for starters)&#8230; since that scene sets up Season 3, I was surprised that didn&#8217;t get any mention.</p>
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		<title>By: Gab</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/07/20/overthinking-lost-4/#comment-10842</link>
		<dc:creator>Gab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 05:54:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8993#comment-10842</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with Ken: I highly disagree that fvfw? gets answered and believe that it never will- and that, I&#039;m guessing, is sort of the point of the show.  Or at least one of the goals the writers had in mind when they set out- making us think about it but not answering it for us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Ken: I highly disagree that fvfw? gets answered and believe that it never will- and that, I&#8217;m guessing, is sort of the point of the show.  Or at least one of the goals the writers had in mind when they set out- making us think about it but not answering it for us.</p>
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		<title>By: ken</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/07/20/overthinking-lost-4/#comment-10839</link>
		<dc:creator>ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 00:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8993#comment-10839</guid>
		<description>I am not sure they will ever answer fate vs free will. i think it will be the one question we will still be talking about after the series is over.


mlawski
i &lt;3 your brain</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure they will ever answer fate vs free will. i think it will be the one question we will still be talking about after the series is over.</p>
<p>mlawski<br />
i &lt;3 your brain</p>
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		<title>By: TheMagician</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/07/20/overthinking-lost-4/#comment-10831</link>
		<dc:creator>TheMagician</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 17:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8993#comment-10831</guid>
		<description>Just gonna give a heads up that the whole Fate vs. Free Will question will be answered once and for all in Season 5 finale. And it&#039;s gonna blow your mind, it sure did mine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just gonna give a heads up that the whole Fate vs. Free Will question will be answered once and for all in Season 5 finale. And it&#8217;s gonna blow your mind, it sure did mine.</p>
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		<title>By: Gab</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/07/20/overthinking-lost-4/#comment-10830</link>
		<dc:creator>Gab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 16:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8993#comment-10830</guid>
		<description>In defense of Sayid, I don&#039;t think he necessarily *enjoys* torturing people.  He just sees situations where it&#039;s a necessary evil.  And he&#039;s not doing it for himself, he&#039;s doing it for everybody else.  Think of him kind of like the Assassin from _Serenity_, he&#039;s doing some icky stuff to make the world his companions are in safer.

Do you think the events resulting in Eko&#039;s becoming a priest make his priesthood any less or more legitimate than if he had thought, &quot;Oh, I want to be a priest?&quot;  Why did *he* have a sudden change in direction/motivation?

What&#039;s gonna happen to WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALT?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In defense of Sayid, I don&#8217;t think he necessarily *enjoys* torturing people.  He just sees situations where it&#8217;s a necessary evil.  And he&#8217;s not doing it for himself, he&#8217;s doing it for everybody else.  Think of him kind of like the Assassin from _Serenity_, he&#8217;s doing some icky stuff to make the world his companions are in safer.</p>
<p>Do you think the events resulting in Eko&#8217;s becoming a priest make his priesthood any less or more legitimate than if he had thought, &#8220;Oh, I want to be a priest?&#8221;  Why did *he* have a sudden change in direction/motivation?</p>
<p>What&#8217;s gonna happen to WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALT?</p>
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		<title>By: Paulo Brabo</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/07/20/overthinking-lost-4/#comment-10829</link>
		<dc:creator>Paulo Brabo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:53:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8993#comment-10829</guid>
		<description>I am expecting the moment you&#039;ll touch the post-modern (read non-chronological, fragmentary) nature of Lost&#039;s storytelling. What I particularly like about Lost is the way our perceptions about the characters (and about the direction of the narrative itself) keeps changing according to the particular order the pieces of the story are presented. 

The Lost story could be told in a multitude of ways, but the writers keep choosing the most misleading one -- hopefully for a reason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am expecting the moment you&#8217;ll touch the post-modern (read non-chronological, fragmentary) nature of Lost&#8217;s storytelling. What I particularly like about Lost is the way our perceptions about the characters (and about the direction of the narrative itself) keeps changing according to the particular order the pieces of the story are presented. </p>
<p>The Lost story could be told in a multitude of ways, but the writers keep choosing the most misleading one &#8212; hopefully for a reason.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom P</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/07/20/overthinking-lost-4/#comment-10809</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jul 2009 21:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8993#comment-10809</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I’m not quite sure how he went so quickly from, “I have faith in everyone and everything, including the button” to a nihilist who thinks his little pathetic life and the button have absolute no meaning, but whatever.&lt;/i&gt;

Sure you do.  Locke had built this entire, meaningful experience in to what had been happening to them for all these months.  He was a guy in a dead end job who life had f*cked over hard.  Now he finds himself in a position of leadership and convinced he&#039;s doing important work.  But Locke, with his years of life, is still this broken down, fragile dude with low self-esteem who just saw this whole tower he built around himself come crashing down.  And when it comes crashing down, he realizes he&#039;s back to being a guy sitting behind a computer pushing buttons and that it&#039;s not important work.  It&#039;s not meaningful.  It&#039;s doing someone else&#039;s bidding with the promise it will make your life better.  Just like it was before.  He feels betrayed and stupid and he overreacts.

If anything, Locke is prone to overreacting.  He gave a dude a kidney after knowing him for like six hours.  He became immediately convinced that this random hatch was the key to his future.  He decides to go on a walkabout while paralyzed.  He&#039;s a mark -- and when he realized (or thought he realized) he was a mark for himself, he went crazy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I’m not quite sure how he went so quickly from, “I have faith in everyone and everything, including the button” to a nihilist who thinks his little pathetic life and the button have absolute no meaning, but whatever.</i></p>
<p>Sure you do.  Locke had built this entire, meaningful experience in to what had been happening to them for all these months.  He was a guy in a dead end job who life had f*cked over hard.  Now he finds himself in a position of leadership and convinced he&#8217;s doing important work.  But Locke, with his years of life, is still this broken down, fragile dude with low self-esteem who just saw this whole tower he built around himself come crashing down.  And when it comes crashing down, he realizes he&#8217;s back to being a guy sitting behind a computer pushing buttons and that it&#8217;s not important work.  It&#8217;s not meaningful.  It&#8217;s doing someone else&#8217;s bidding with the promise it will make your life better.  Just like it was before.  He feels betrayed and stupid and he overreacts.</p>
<p>If anything, Locke is prone to overreacting.  He gave a dude a kidney after knowing him for like six hours.  He became immediately convinced that this random hatch was the key to his future.  He decides to go on a walkabout while paralyzed.  He&#8217;s a mark &#8212; and when he realized (or thought he realized) he was a mark for himself, he went crazy.</p>
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