I’m really glad you pointed out the Artz thing, as I have focused on it ever since he first died. He’s an insecure wuss, but exactly correct.

Likewise, your point about the definition of the word “faith” is crucial, especially considering “Man of Science, Man of Faith” was the season opener and the title refers to Jack. Once again, what are the writers saying about today?

I have frequently thought this was the most ridiculous aspect of season two. That they suddenly find a hatch with beds and heat and showers and there is no push by the other castaways to enter it.

You are totally correct about the Ana-Lucia vs. Jack leadership contrast. Both are dictators but Ana-Lucia, I think, was supposed to be the military dictatorship instead of the benevolent dictatorship. That’s why hers fell apart quicker. The people were only bound together through threat of force and guilt and, when they realized she wouldn’t use force, it fell apart.

Major turning point episode next week that I’m looking forward to your thoughts on.

It’s a shame you stepped in after 5 season’s have aired.

I’ve watched the show since the first season aired and this is one show in which discussion forums have been popping up from day one, because of the rich content in it like what you are finding.

I won’t say more, since I will spoil it for you. For overthinkers this show will yield many fruits.

@ Gab: It’s definitely a cop-out but only because there are a bunch of other ways to flesh out a character. This one’s just the simplest. I think as long as it’s believable it’s legitimate. We don’t see Sayid falling in love with Shannon within the first week of the crash, moving into her hut by the second, and proposing to her by the third week only for her to catch dysentery and die. While pregnant with his baby.
If I was a writer and I needed some character development, why not kill someone off? It’s exciting and gets the job done easily. Especially this early in the show when the audience is attached to certain characters just enough for the death to resound but not enough for it to bite.

To expand on mlawski’s point: Another possibilty for the creation of such characters is that the writer’s intention is for them to die during a plot twist to add to the shock value of the show, so it matters just a little bit more than ‘oh snap, that extra just got shot’. I know there’s a specific episode with that purpose, well it actually seemed more like the writers were experimenting with the creation of stand alone episodes and decided against it. I’m not sure if that episode came up already. It involved a random couple messing around on the island. Basically. Tell me if I’ve said too much!

Clearly, fridge stuffing isn’t only suffered by female characters. although it happens to them so frequently that it gets very noticeable. But Boone is a great male example.

I’m trying to think of an easier way of upping the drama and character development than killing off some major secondary characters. It’s difficult. Yes, Jack and Locke could have fought about something else, but would anything have been as dramatic as a fight over the death of a friend? Dunno.

As for Shannon and Sayid, I don’t think the death was necessary there. Sayid was already humanized by his flashbacks; just being friends with Shannon rather than lovers would have worked fine, too. And she definitely didn’t need to die to hammer home the point that Sayid gets adorable puppy-dog eyes when he’s sad. We saw that in his flashbacks, as well.

I think what happened was the writers wanted Ana Lucia to introduce herself by killing someone in Team Jack–how crazy dramatic is that?–and Shannon was disposable. Unfortunately, most of the female characters in Lost are pretty disposable right now. That’s what happens when you make more than three-quarters of your characters dudes.

Re: Shannon, and I’m adding Boone in there, since both are now dead.

I agree, Shannon was interesting- that by no means necessitates “liking,” though. So we seem to be on the same page. My thing with her and her brother is once they were dead, I couldn’t help but feel as though their only purpose in the series was to boost other characters, the “more important” ones, and feed into those other plot-lines. Boone, I already basically said it on (I think) the last analysis piece: he was there to give us more Locke, Locke v. Jack, and Jack v. fallibility. Shannon’s main purpose was to give Sayid some of his humanity back- through his relationship with her, he became capable of opening up to (or at least making better connections with) the rest of the survivors. He may not be spilling his guts, but he’s at least really listening now, and getting more attune to the needs and happiness/safety/comforts of his cohorts- Shannon’s mission to save the dog became his because of his affection for her, for example. If you consider the “stuff” the siblings did before dying, it is always something someone else could just as easily have done- e.g. it would not be hard to believe in Sayid or Jack also knowing French and thus being able to translate Rousseau’s message, given how educated they are; and Locke could have taken anybody else with him to the airplane (or he could have just heard the radio himself on a solo mission). But then those character-boosting parts about them would have been lost, or else they would have needed to come about some other way. Sayid would have needed a different way to build a bridge connecting him with everybody else, and Jack and Locke would have needed to clash over other things, things that wouldn’t seem as big of a deal and would just make them seem pettier than they already do (because someone dying is always a big deal, but coconut distribution is much more relative/subjective). Now, I suppose since I didn’t actually *like* Shannon, I would have been okay with her not being there at all, but I did genuinely like Boone. In retrospect, he’s sort of like the dog in _Up_ (or perhaps it should be the other way around): trying really hard, good intentions, (basically) blinded by his desire to help, forgiving to a fault, running around and dappling into everything because he wants to be involved, almost over-eager, etc. He was like a puppy.

But my point is I don’t really know how I feel about that with respect to the writers. Is that a good method, creating characters with a purpose only to boost others? Is it a cop-out, and if so, an acceptable or unacceptable one? I keep see-sawing, unfortunately, so I’m asserting my right to spam the comments and asking anybody else who wants to answer.

I did like Shannon! Well, that’s not quite right. I didn’t like her like her. I wouldn’t want to be friends with her. But she fascinated me. And when I’m watching TV, that’s about as important as being likable. Or even more important.

Shannon was an interesting wild card. I was never quite sure what she would do. Her motivations were often so petty and childish that they could almost justify any action she took. Like when she tried to kill Locke, I bought it. If someone tried to steal Sayid from her, I’d have no trouble believing that she’d cut that someone in her sleep. I could even see her pulling a Hedda Gabler: “I’m bored on this island. To spite Boone, I’ll just kill myself in front of everyone. Then they’ll be sorry. They’ll all be sorry!” I even bought it when she had a change of heart and became the sweet lover/dog-watcher/potential Walt-finder/tragic deather.

Characters like this always fascinate me. Plus she had some hidden depths, which was also cool. I liked that her flashback explained her personality but didn’t excuse her actions. I wonder if others feel that way, too. Sometimes it seems like Lost (and other shows) are so bent on keeping the main characters “likable” that they go and excuse every bad thing they ever did. Like: Kate robbed a bank and shot three men, but it’s okay because oh look she’s sad her boyfriend died awwww. No. I’m more interested in how Shannon conned and seduced her brother to get some money to pay off her debt. She was spoiled and then she was screwed over. Conning and seducing are the only things she knows how to do. This is how she gets by in the world. Do we like her for it? No. Does her past excuse it? No. Is it interesting? To me, yes it is.

Rose and Bernard are just darling! And Sun and Jin!! As for lovehate bromances, keep an eye on Jack and Sawyer. They have some very special moments throughout the show.

These are some great takes! I can’t wait to see where the Others fall into all of this. I have my theories but I wouldn’t want to say too much and give anything away.

@ Gab You’re absolutely right. Trust is key in their methods of leadership and it really goes both ways. It gets even more complicated when people begin to follow those they really shouldn’t trust even after it proves to be their downfall over and over again.