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	<title>Comments on: Let me tell you something:  Overthinkin&#8217; makes me feel good</title>
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	<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/06/11/ghostbusters-theme-song/</link>
	<description>Overthinking It subjects the popular culture to a level of scrutiny it probably doesn&#039;t deserve.</description>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/06/11/ghostbusters-theme-song/#comment-12069</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 21:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8260#comment-12069</guid>
		<description>What a great music video. I never knew that the Ghostbusters and Ray Parker Jr. walking down the street together in this video was the source of the same walk on the Real Ghostbusters cartoon show. I hope that they make another movie, but soon!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a great music video. I never knew that the Ghostbusters and Ray Parker Jr. walking down the street together in this video was the source of the same walk on the Real Ghostbusters cartoon show. I hope that they make another movie, but soon!</p>
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		<title>By: Gab</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/06/11/ghostbusters-theme-song/#comment-9685</link>
		<dc:creator>Gab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 06:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8260#comment-9685</guid>
		<description>I actually had no idea there was a lawsuit.  I always assumed Parker&#039;s song was a legitimate sample, done with permission, given how extremely close they sound (imo). 

I&#039;d like to know how Parker comes back to life in the video.  He obviously starts out as a ghost because we see him floating through things, but later he has a physical body around which the woman wraps herself (and boy, a feminist critique of the video would be *so* rich).

@DPSquared: Since music is a form of intellectual property, wouldn&#039;t this mean at least some aspect(s) of it must be intangible, abstract, etc.?  A non-thing is still a thing in that it&#039;s an idea, thus a noun, ergo something a person can own.   I agree there are two parts to music ownership, the first being the notes on the page, and the second being the execution/what is recorded/heard/etc.  But since the latter is something we cannot actually touch or move around in itself, it&#039;s an abstract concept the author of the notes spawning the sound can still have rights to.

@Tom: And then there was Vanilla Ice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually had no idea there was a lawsuit.  I always assumed Parker&#8217;s song was a legitimate sample, done with permission, given how extremely close they sound (imo). </p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to know how Parker comes back to life in the video.  He obviously starts out as a ghost because we see him floating through things, but later he has a physical body around which the woman wraps herself (and boy, a feminist critique of the video would be *so* rich).</p>
<p>@DPSquared: Since music is a form of intellectual property, wouldn&#8217;t this mean at least some aspect(s) of it must be intangible, abstract, etc.?  A non-thing is still a thing in that it&#8217;s an idea, thus a noun, ergo something a person can own.   I agree there are two parts to music ownership, the first being the notes on the page, and the second being the execution/what is recorded/heard/etc.  But since the latter is something we cannot actually touch or move around in itself, it&#8217;s an abstract concept the author of the notes spawning the sound can still have rights to.</p>
<p>@Tom: And then there was Vanilla Ice.</p>
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		<title>By: Pianodan</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/06/11/ghostbusters-theme-song/#comment-9682</link>
		<dc:creator>Pianodan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 02:46:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8260#comment-9682</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s DOCTOR Infinite Brian Mays to you, pal!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s DOCTOR Infinite Brian Mays to you, pal!</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/06/11/ghostbusters-theme-song/#comment-9681</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 02:31:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8260#comment-9681</guid>
		<description>And then Queen kinda-sorta ripped off the Ghostbusters theme for Invisible Man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hBhhmLGEA

The video is great, by the way, especially the Infinite Brian Mays at about 2:30 in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And then Queen kinda-sorta ripped off the Ghostbusters theme for Invisible Man.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hBhhmLGEA" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7hBhhmLGEA</a></p>
<p>The video is great, by the way, especially the Infinite Brian Mays at about 2:30 in.</p>
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		<title>By: stokes</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/06/11/ghostbusters-theme-song/#comment-9678</link>
		<dc:creator>stokes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 23:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8260#comment-9678</guid>
		<description>DPSquared - thanks for the explanation, and no need to apologize:  this is a &quot;safe space&quot; for nitpicking.  I guess my complaint, then, is that while there are very obvious  similarities between the two songs, I don&#039;t think that any of them are enough to make the songs &quot;substantially similar.&quot;

Maybe you can explain something more, though.  If copyright doesn&#039;t give &quot;thingness&quot; (great word choice!) to individual melodies, etc, why is it a violation of copyright to sample even a single note without permission?  I&#039;m not trying to argue with you, I&#039;m just honestly curious.

You know what, I&#039;m actually curious about another thing too, and here I am trying to argue with you.  &quot;There&#039;s nothing abstract about it at this level: there needs to be a physical thing to have a copyright... In the case of a musical recording, you have two separate works:  the recording itself, and the music as expressed in the recording.&quot;  In what sense is the music expressed in the recording not an abstraction?  If you take the complete works of Metallica and arrange them for string quartet, you are keeping the pitch relationships and rhythms but discarding everything else, and it&#039;s illegal if you don&#039;t have permission (and a bad idea in any case). If, on the other hand, you discard the pitch and rhythm (and lyrics) but keep everything else (certain instruments mixed a certain way, a certain vocal technique, etc.) you&#039;re entirely within your rights.  Certain aspects of music are therefore privileged, and I would argue that they are privileged precisely *because* they are abstractions (or more accurately because they can be abstracted).  We have a symbolic vocabulary for writing down pitches and rhythms; no such language exists for vocal technique and instrumental balance; therefore, pitches and rhythms are coyrightable and the other aspects are not.

Wade - I think actually it went the other way around... the Ghostbusters producers tried to hire Lewis, but he was busy working on BTTF, so they hired Parker instead.  This may have contributed to Lewis&#039; decision to sue... it certainly sounds plausible that the producers would have told Parker &quot;Look, we wanted to hire Huey Lewis, so write us something that&#039;s as close to that as possible.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DPSquared &#8211; thanks for the explanation, and no need to apologize:  this is a &#8220;safe space&#8221; for nitpicking.  I guess my complaint, then, is that while there are very obvious  similarities between the two songs, I don&#8217;t think that any of them are enough to make the songs &#8220;substantially similar.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe you can explain something more, though.  If copyright doesn&#8217;t give &#8220;thingness&#8221; (great word choice!) to individual melodies, etc, why is it a violation of copyright to sample even a single note without permission?  I&#8217;m not trying to argue with you, I&#8217;m just honestly curious.</p>
<p>You know what, I&#8217;m actually curious about another thing too, and here I am trying to argue with you.  &#8220;There&#8217;s nothing abstract about it at this level: there needs to be a physical thing to have a copyright&#8230; In the case of a musical recording, you have two separate works:  the recording itself, and the music as expressed in the recording.&#8221;  In what sense is the music expressed in the recording not an abstraction?  If you take the complete works of Metallica and arrange them for string quartet, you are keeping the pitch relationships and rhythms but discarding everything else, and it&#8217;s illegal if you don&#8217;t have permission (and a bad idea in any case). If, on the other hand, you discard the pitch and rhythm (and lyrics) but keep everything else (certain instruments mixed a certain way, a certain vocal technique, etc.) you&#8217;re entirely within your rights.  Certain aspects of music are therefore privileged, and I would argue that they are privileged precisely *because* they are abstractions (or more accurately because they can be abstracted).  We have a symbolic vocabulary for writing down pitches and rhythms; no such language exists for vocal technique and instrumental balance; therefore, pitches and rhythms are coyrightable and the other aspects are not.</p>
<p>Wade &#8211; I think actually it went the other way around&#8230; the Ghostbusters producers tried to hire Lewis, but he was busy working on BTTF, so they hired Parker instead.  This may have contributed to Lewis&#8217; decision to sue&#8230; it certainly sounds plausible that the producers would have told Parker &#8220;Look, we wanted to hire Huey Lewis, so write us something that&#8217;s as close to that as possible.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Wade</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/06/11/ghostbusters-theme-song/#comment-9676</link>
		<dc:creator>Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 23:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8260#comment-9676</guid>
		<description>Wasn&#039;t the battle over the Ghostbusters theme the reason Huey Lewis and the News agreed to write a couple songs for Back to the Future?  So if not for Ray Parker, The News would never have gotten an Oscar nomination for &quot;The Power of Love&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wasn&#8217;t the battle over the Ghostbusters theme the reason Huey Lewis and the News agreed to write a couple songs for Back to the Future?  So if not for Ray Parker, The News would never have gotten an Oscar nomination for &#8220;The Power of Love&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: DPSquared</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/06/11/ghostbusters-theme-song/#comment-9671</link>
		<dc:creator>DPSquared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8260#comment-9671</guid>
		<description>Copyright infringement requires a showing of substantial similarity and actual (or constructive) access to the work.  Access is pretty easy to show here; substantial similarity is a slippery legal concept, but it&#039;s ultimately a factual determination, so basically Huey would just have to convince a judge or jury of it.  The thing presumably got settled because both parties thought there was some chance they&#039;d lose on that determination.  So that&#039;s just the system at work as far as I&#039;m concerned.  Copyright law certainly has some screwy bits, but I don&#039;t think this is one of them.  It carves out a lot of safe territory for subsequent artists: fair use, protection of expression only and not ideas/information, no protection for short phrases and the like.  If you can&#039;t convince a finder of fact that you&#039;ve played it straight, you deserve to lose.  Like democracy itself, it&#039;s the worst possible system except for all of the others.  

And apologies for nitpicking but this sentence muddles a couple legal concepts: &quot;If we’re going to claim that the riff from I Want a New Drug is a legal entity that can be abstracted, copyrighted, and owned, why is one artist allowed to hold separate copyrights on different versions of the riff?&quot;  First, legal entities are things that can in their own right have rights or property, like corporations.  Second, copyright law doesn&#039;t give &quot;thingness&quot; to individual parts ideas, melodies, words, etc.  It gives a bundle of rights to the author with respect to an entire creative work fixed in a tangible form.  There&#039;s nothing abstract about it at this level: there needs to be a physical thing to have a copyright, even if it&#039;s a hard drive.  In the case of a musical recording, you have two separate works: the recording itself, and the music as expressed in the recording.  Here it would be an infringement on the music and not the recording, to which Parker&#039;s work would supposedly bear a substantial similarity.  Huey holds rights to his work as a whole, not any individual riff or variations on it.  But the more pieces of it you borrow, the closer you get to that &quot;substantial similarity&quot; standard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Copyright infringement requires a showing of substantial similarity and actual (or constructive) access to the work.  Access is pretty easy to show here; substantial similarity is a slippery legal concept, but it&#8217;s ultimately a factual determination, so basically Huey would just have to convince a judge or jury of it.  The thing presumably got settled because both parties thought there was some chance they&#8217;d lose on that determination.  So that&#8217;s just the system at work as far as I&#8217;m concerned.  Copyright law certainly has some screwy bits, but I don&#8217;t think this is one of them.  It carves out a lot of safe territory for subsequent artists: fair use, protection of expression only and not ideas/information, no protection for short phrases and the like.  If you can&#8217;t convince a finder of fact that you&#8217;ve played it straight, you deserve to lose.  Like democracy itself, it&#8217;s the worst possible system except for all of the others.  </p>
<p>And apologies for nitpicking but this sentence muddles a couple legal concepts: &#8220;If we’re going to claim that the riff from I Want a New Drug is a legal entity that can be abstracted, copyrighted, and owned, why is one artist allowed to hold separate copyrights on different versions of the riff?&#8221;  First, legal entities are things that can in their own right have rights or property, like corporations.  Second, copyright law doesn&#8217;t give &#8220;thingness&#8221; to individual parts ideas, melodies, words, etc.  It gives a bundle of rights to the author with respect to an entire creative work fixed in a tangible form.  There&#8217;s nothing abstract about it at this level: there needs to be a physical thing to have a copyright, even if it&#8217;s a hard drive.  In the case of a musical recording, you have two separate works: the recording itself, and the music as expressed in the recording.  Here it would be an infringement on the music and not the recording, to which Parker&#8217;s work would supposedly bear a substantial similarity.  Huey holds rights to his work as a whole, not any individual riff or variations on it.  But the more pieces of it you borrow, the closer you get to that &#8220;substantial similarity&#8221; standard.</p>
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		<title>By: Darin</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/06/11/ghostbusters-theme-song/#comment-9666</link>
		<dc:creator>Darin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 17:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=8260#comment-9666</guid>
		<description>In the comedian cameos of Parker&#039;s videos, was that Senator Al Franken at 3:42?  (Yes, I know that Franken was quite the comic at the time.)

This reminds me of all the patents on proteins, naturally occurring events that are in patterns and someone asserts that they own the intellectual property.

Huey needs to take his lumps.  I imagine if we followed every Jazz or Blues riff, we could find a zillion ripoffs.  Maybe I should make my first million getting patents on song riffs and suing people.  Sounds silly, doesn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the comedian cameos of Parker&#8217;s videos, was that Senator Al Franken at 3:42?  (Yes, I know that Franken was quite the comic at the time.)</p>
<p>This reminds me of all the patents on proteins, naturally occurring events that are in patterns and someone asserts that they own the intellectual property.</p>
<p>Huey needs to take his lumps.  I imagine if we followed every Jazz or Blues riff, we could find a zillion ripoffs.  Maybe I should make my first million getting patents on song riffs and suing people.  Sounds silly, doesn&#8217;t it?</p>
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