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	<title>Comments on: Open Thread for May 22, 2009</title>
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	<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/05/22/open-thread-for-may-22-2009/</link>
	<description>Overthinking It subjects the popular culture to a level of scrutiny it probably doesn&#039;t deserve.</description>
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		<title>By: Trevor</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/05/22/open-thread-for-may-22-2009/#comment-9245</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 16:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=7758#comment-9245</guid>
		<description>@Matthew B - I totally forgot about TWBB. Let the shunning begin.

Honestly, his name just crept to mind when I was flailing for a director whose work has been vaunted in the past but his later stuff isn&#039;t so much (clearly I could&#039;ve picked a better example). My apologies, but you do remind me that I need to get around to seeing TWBB (I am very deficient on keeping up with Oscar winners over the past decade, I only saw Slumdog when it came out on DVD after the awards and ditto Frost/Nixon). I think the last year I caught all five nominated best pictures was 1999/2000 (whenever &quot;Life is Beautiful&quot; made the Holocaust funny, I guess).

@Gab - Anytime an ad says &quot;featuring Oscar-winner insert-name-here&quot;, I always think &quot;but not for this movie!&quot; Nine times out of ten, it seems like an Oscar winner&#039;s immediate follow-up project fails to reach the same heights either critically or commercially.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matthew B &#8211; I totally forgot about TWBB. Let the shunning begin.</p>
<p>Honestly, his name just crept to mind when I was flailing for a director whose work has been vaunted in the past but his later stuff isn&#8217;t so much (clearly I could&#8217;ve picked a better example). My apologies, but you do remind me that I need to get around to seeing TWBB (I am very deficient on keeping up with Oscar winners over the past decade, I only saw Slumdog when it came out on DVD after the awards and ditto Frost/Nixon). I think the last year I caught all five nominated best pictures was 1999/2000 (whenever &#8220;Life is Beautiful&#8221; made the Holocaust funny, I guess).</p>
<p>@Gab &#8211; Anytime an ad says &#8220;featuring Oscar-winner insert-name-here&#8221;, I always think &#8220;but not for this movie!&#8221; Nine times out of ten, it seems like an Oscar winner&#8217;s immediate follow-up project fails to reach the same heights either critically or commercially.</p>
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		<title>By: Gab</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/05/22/open-thread-for-may-22-2009/#comment-9240</link>
		<dc:creator>Gab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 05:32:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=7758#comment-9240</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to throw a monkey wrench in the cogs and say I think it depends on the film and who is involved.  No, it isn&#039;t so much about the studios themselves any longer.  Instead, every film seems to drop names and former works wherever convenient, using whichever ones are most likely to get a positive reaction from the potential audience.  Take Disney ads.  I can&#039;t name specific movies, but they&#039;ll say things along the lines of, &quot;From the director that brought you _Suchandsuch_,&quot; or, &quot;From the animation team that brought _Bladdyblah_ to life,&quot; or, &quot;With music and songs by the team behind _Whatsit_,&quot; in mutually exclusive situations.  So if the director has a good track record, their name will be emphasized when the movie is being pitched; if it&#039;s the producer, then there ya go; writers; even cinematographers; etc.  Of course, if it&#039;s a TEAM of minds, or if more than one of the positions is filled with a Big Name with a Good Work or Works, all will be used (or at least as much as can fit practically in the ad).  But the bottom line is the ads for any movie will emphasize whatever they possibly can to get maximum viewership of the film.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to throw a monkey wrench in the cogs and say I think it depends on the film and who is involved.  No, it isn&#8217;t so much about the studios themselves any longer.  Instead, every film seems to drop names and former works wherever convenient, using whichever ones are most likely to get a positive reaction from the potential audience.  Take Disney ads.  I can&#8217;t name specific movies, but they&#8217;ll say things along the lines of, &#8220;From the director that brought you _Suchandsuch_,&#8221; or, &#8220;From the animation team that brought _Bladdyblah_ to life,&#8221; or, &#8220;With music and songs by the team behind _Whatsit_,&#8221; in mutually exclusive situations.  So if the director has a good track record, their name will be emphasized when the movie is being pitched; if it&#8217;s the producer, then there ya go; writers; even cinematographers; etc.  Of course, if it&#8217;s a TEAM of minds, or if more than one of the positions is filled with a Big Name with a Good Work or Works, all will be used (or at least as much as can fit practically in the ad).  But the bottom line is the ads for any movie will emphasize whatever they possibly can to get maximum viewership of the film.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Belinkie</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/05/22/open-thread-for-may-22-2009/#comment-9238</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Belinkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 May 2009 02:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=7758#comment-9238</guid>
		<description>@Trevor - &quot;When was the last time anyone got excited for a Paul Thomas Anderson film, for example?&quot; Um, his last film? There Will Be Blood?

I&#039;m not sure I understand what you&#039;re trying to say. Clearly, a LOT of people get excited for PTA&#039;s work - I promise you that whatever he decides to make next, there will be a lot of buzz around it, and healthy crowds (for an indie movie). And if you&#039;re arguing that There Will Be Blood&#039;s success was all Daniel Day-Lewis, let me point out that Daniel&#039;s previous film, The Ballad of Jack and Rose, didn&#039;t even break a million at the box office.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Trevor &#8211; &#8220;When was the last time anyone got excited for a Paul Thomas Anderson film, for example?&#8221; Um, his last film? There Will Be Blood?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I understand what you&#8217;re trying to say. Clearly, a LOT of people get excited for PTA&#8217;s work &#8211; I promise you that whatever he decides to make next, there will be a lot of buzz around it, and healthy crowds (for an indie movie). And if you&#8217;re arguing that There Will Be Blood&#8217;s success was all Daniel Day-Lewis, let me point out that Daniel&#8217;s previous film, The Ballad of Jack and Rose, didn&#8217;t even break a million at the box office.</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor Seigler</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/05/22/open-thread-for-may-22-2009/#comment-9237</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor Seigler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 23:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=7758#comment-9237</guid>
		<description>I just want to note that PTA is a director whose work I admire, but his seemed like the most obvious &quot;where are they now&quot; director name to use as an example. Any man who can make Tom Cruise seem like a macho heterosexual pig is okay in my book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just want to note that PTA is a director whose work I admire, but his seemed like the most obvious &#8220;where are they now&#8221; director name to use as an example. Any man who can make Tom Cruise seem like a macho heterosexual pig is okay in my book.</p>
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		<title>By: Trevor Seigler</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/05/22/open-thread-for-may-22-2009/#comment-9236</link>
		<dc:creator>Trevor Seigler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 23:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=7758#comment-9236</guid>
		<description>@Matthew B: Yeah, Aliens is different from T2. It has aliens in it, duh! 

I like the discussion of who makea a film, producers or directors. In the truest collaberative art of all time, it&#039;s interesting how much stock is placed in who&#039;s in a movie or who directed it. I think Truffaut lived to regret his statements that &quot;the director is the author&quot; of his particular film, if only because the reality is so often less definitive. Directors like Kubrick, Godard, and Tarantino might be &quot;name directors,&quot; but they can&#039;t make the film on their own. Conversely, though, their names are on the line with each new film they release (well, except Kubrick, who&#039;s been dead for a while, but you get my point). When was the last time anyone got excited for a Paul Thomas Anderson film, for example? Movie stars and directors can live or die by what the public gets to see. Producers, so far as I can tell, do sometimes experience a similar exit from the main stage of fame, but no one ever walks out of a movie either praising or damning the producer.

I&#039;m looking forward to the start of the fall TV season, because the summer one looks like a post-apocalyptic nightmare of creative bankruptcy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matthew B: Yeah, Aliens is different from T2. It has aliens in it, duh! </p>
<p>I like the discussion of who makea a film, producers or directors. In the truest collaberative art of all time, it&#8217;s interesting how much stock is placed in who&#8217;s in a movie or who directed it. I think Truffaut lived to regret his statements that &#8220;the director is the author&#8221; of his particular film, if only because the reality is so often less definitive. Directors like Kubrick, Godard, and Tarantino might be &#8220;name directors,&#8221; but they can&#8217;t make the film on their own. Conversely, though, their names are on the line with each new film they release (well, except Kubrick, who&#8217;s been dead for a while, but you get my point). When was the last time anyone got excited for a Paul Thomas Anderson film, for example? Movie stars and directors can live or die by what the public gets to see. Producers, so far as I can tell, do sometimes experience a similar exit from the main stage of fame, but no one ever walks out of a movie either praising or damning the producer.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m looking forward to the start of the fall TV season, because the summer one looks like a post-apocalyptic nightmare of creative bankruptcy.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Belinkie</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/05/22/open-thread-for-may-22-2009/#comment-9235</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Belinkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 21:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=7758#comment-9235</guid>
		<description>I admire DFW&#039;s writing and incite enough so that I want to try and understand where he&#039;s coming from, but it&#039;s hard. He says in this essay that Aliens is one of the two best action movies of the 80&#039;s. Is Aliens really so different than T2?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I admire DFW&#8217;s writing and incite enough so that I want to try and understand where he&#8217;s coming from, but it&#8217;s hard. He says in this essay that Aliens is one of the two best action movies of the 80&#8242;s. Is Aliens really so different than T2?</p>
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		<title>By: Gab</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/05/22/open-thread-for-may-22-2009/#comment-9234</link>
		<dc:creator>Gab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 19:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=7758#comment-9234</guid>
		<description>Stuff I care about that nobody else does: The finale of _DWTS_ and _Castle_ getting renewed.  

Shows I&#039;m interested in next season: NBC&#039;s _Community_, Fox&#039;s _Brothers_, and ABC&#039;s _Flash Forward_ and _The Deep End_.  Probably too many to actually follow, but we&#039;ll see.

Stuff others may be interested in: M.I.A. was on Bill Maher&#039;s show this week.  

The Credit Card Holder&#039;s Bill of Rights was signed.  

_King of the Hill_ will end this fall.  

A California Supreme Court is going to rule on Prop 8 on Tuesday morning. 

Re: _Terminator_: I&#039;m a little surprised he&#039;d say _Jurassic Park_ and _Forrest Gump_ were bad movies, too, so I&#039;m more than a little skeptical about this Wallace&#039;s tastes and (p)references.  _LotR_ may have proven his little formula wrong, but _King Kong_ sticks to it, so I think Peter Jackson gets sort of nullified there.  But I think enough good (or at least not TERRIBLE) movies with big special effects budgets have come out in the past couple years to prove his theory obsolete.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stuff I care about that nobody else does: The finale of _DWTS_ and _Castle_ getting renewed.  </p>
<p>Shows I&#8217;m interested in next season: NBC&#8217;s _Community_, Fox&#8217;s _Brothers_, and ABC&#8217;s _Flash Forward_ and _The Deep End_.  Probably too many to actually follow, but we&#8217;ll see.</p>
<p>Stuff others may be interested in: M.I.A. was on Bill Maher&#8217;s show this week.  </p>
<p>The Credit Card Holder&#8217;s Bill of Rights was signed.  </p>
<p>_King of the Hill_ will end this fall.  </p>
<p>A California Supreme Court is going to rule on Prop 8 on Tuesday morning. </p>
<p>Re: _Terminator_: I&#8217;m a little surprised he&#8217;d say _Jurassic Park_ and _Forrest Gump_ were bad movies, too, so I&#8217;m more than a little skeptical about this Wallace&#8217;s tastes and (p)references.  _LotR_ may have proven his little formula wrong, but _King Kong_ sticks to it, so I think Peter Jackson gets sort of nullified there.  But I think enough good (or at least not TERRIBLE) movies with big special effects budgets have come out in the past couple years to prove his theory obsolete.</p>
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		<title>By: fenzel</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/05/22/open-thread-for-may-22-2009/#comment-9233</link>
		<dc:creator>fenzel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 15:06:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=7758#comment-9233</guid>
		<description>Also, T2 isn&#039;t like hard-core porn at all. The people and robots aren&#039;t actually getting shot, and they don&#039;t show a lot of brains flying around or anything. It&#039;s clearly soft-core.

Lazy, DFW. Lazy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, T2 isn&#8217;t like hard-core porn at all. The people and robots aren&#8217;t actually getting shot, and they don&#8217;t show a lot of brains flying around or anything. It&#8217;s clearly soft-core.</p>
<p>Lazy, DFW. Lazy.</p>
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		<title>By: fenzel</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/05/22/open-thread-for-may-22-2009/#comment-9228</link>
		<dc:creator>fenzel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 05:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=7758#comment-9228</guid>
		<description>@MB 

By his reasoning, there&#039;s also no difference between hard-core porn and opera, because it has a bunch of songs in it and the overarching structure strings them together.

As for the Inverse Cost and Quality law --

In this article, he says Jurassic Park, Independence Day and Forrest Gump are obvious examples of movies that are shitty except for the special effects. I&#039;m kind of flabbergasted by that.

It is fitting that the article was written when Titanic had just come out - it seems to represent a potential branching point for an alternate timeline in which Titanic were a shitty movie that nobody connected with personally except for the special effects. That world is probably interesting.

Also, if the Inverse Cost and Quality Law were alive, it sure is dead now. The Lord of the Rings movies straight murdered it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@MB </p>
<p>By his reasoning, there&#8217;s also no difference between hard-core porn and opera, because it has a bunch of songs in it and the overarching structure strings them together.</p>
<p>As for the Inverse Cost and Quality law &#8211;</p>
<p>In this article, he says Jurassic Park, Independence Day and Forrest Gump are obvious examples of movies that are shitty except for the special effects. I&#8217;m kind of flabbergasted by that.</p>
<p>It is fitting that the article was written when Titanic had just come out &#8211; it seems to represent a potential branching point for an alternate timeline in which Titanic were a shitty movie that nobody connected with personally except for the special effects. That world is probably interesting.</p>
<p>Also, if the Inverse Cost and Quality Law were alive, it sure is dead now. The Lord of the Rings movies straight murdered it.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Belinkie</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/05/22/open-thread-for-may-22-2009/#comment-9227</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Belinkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 May 2009 04:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=7758#comment-9227</guid>
		<description>For the Terminator fans out there, I highly recommend this 1998 essay by David Foster Wallace, about how Terminator 2 is &quot;an appalling betrayal&quot; of the original:
http://www.badgerinternet.com/~bobkat/waterstone.html

Wallace, who committed suicide last September, is generally thought of as the eggheaded author of the daunting dense &quot;Infinite Jest.&quot; And indeed he was. But he also was a pop culture fan, and a bit of a geek. Honestly, this essay reads a lot like Overthinking It on steroids.

His argument is that while The Terminator is an all-around brilliant film, T2 puts an inordinate emphasis on the &quot;F/X Porn,&quot; to the detriment of everything else. I don&#039;t necessarily agree with him. However, I will admit that the entire second act of T2 (after they break Sarah out of the asylum and before they decide to blow up Cyberdyne) is sort of a blur to me. And yup, I hate Sarah&#039;s final voiceover. HATE it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the Terminator fans out there, I highly recommend this 1998 essay by David Foster Wallace, about how Terminator 2 is &#8220;an appalling betrayal&#8221; of the original:<br />
<a href="http://www.badgerinternet.com/~bobkat/waterstone.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.badgerinternet.com/~bobkat/waterstone.html</a></p>
<p>Wallace, who committed suicide last September, is generally thought of as the eggheaded author of the daunting dense &#8220;Infinite Jest.&#8221; And indeed he was. But he also was a pop culture fan, and a bit of a geek. Honestly, this essay reads a lot like Overthinking It on steroids.</p>
<p>His argument is that while The Terminator is an all-around brilliant film, T2 puts an inordinate emphasis on the &#8220;F/X Porn,&#8221; to the detriment of everything else. I don&#8217;t necessarily agree with him. However, I will admit that the entire second act of T2 (after they break Sarah out of the asylum and before they decide to blow up Cyberdyne) is sort of a blur to me. And yup, I hate Sarah&#8217;s final voiceover. HATE it.</p>
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