Comments on: Kanye West Doesn’t Suck Ass: Even the Superficial Raps are Super Official

By: sarielthrawn

sarielthrawn — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:34:04 +0000

@sheely – Saul Williams, K’naan, The Roots are more my cup o’ tea when it comes to rap/hip hop. Even someone like Jason Mraz has, I think, cleverer (is that even a real word?) word play and a better flow than Mr West (from what I’ve heard). Eminem is definitely a better rapper. NY Oil is pretty good too.

In terms of lyricism though, Saul is up there for me. Prince used to be a great lyricist before he became a Jehovah’s Witness. And for political stuff Rage Against the Machine always had something good to say.

Here’s a quote from Saul’s “Telegram.” Those of you that don’t know, you better ask somebody.

“Telegram to Hip Hop: Dear Hip Hop .(stop). This shit has gone too far. (stop). Please see that mixer and turntables are returned to Kool Herc. (stop). The ghettos are dancing off beat. (stop). The master of ceremonies have forgotten that they were once slaves and have neglected the occasion of this ceremony. (stop). Perhaps we should not have encouraged them to use cordless microphones, for they have walked too far from the source and are emitting a lesser frequency (stop). Please inform all interested parties that cash nor murder have been added to the list of elements. (stop). We are discontinuing our current line of braggadocio, in light of the current trend in “realness”. (stop). As an alternative, we will be confiscating weed supplies and replacing them with magic mushrooms, in hopes of helping niggas see beyond their reality. (stop). Give my regards to Brooklyn.”

By: CyanideSmoker

CyanideSmoker — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:24:03 +0000

Im sorry, I guess Im ‘Missing the point’. I’ve heard some things I consider ‘Lyrically profound’, but Kanye? Really? Nevermind the fact I find singers/Vocalists the least talented of all musicians, I’ve never heard a thought provoking song from Kanye. Rap/Hip-Hop I find boring in damn near every facet. Most of the Rap/Hip-Hop acts I like are hybrids, mixing Metal/Rock with it (I.E. Bionic Jive). Or when I need a truly good beat, Industrial (KMFDM)
Personally, I do prefer the lyrics to a minority of the Rock/Metal bands out there. Bands such as System of a Down, who are highly political and make some good points in a majority of there songs, to Mushrromhead and there lyrics which can be interpreted many ways through the words they use and how they are used. I also know these bands dont use ‘Ghost Writers’, a sickening practice in my opinion.
Basically, I just dont see the musical draw to Rap/Hip-Hop. There beats lack an intricacy Industrial Beats do. Lyrics may ‘flow’ better and voices may be better than most metal bands, but this is undermined by the constant use of Ghost Writers and voice filters. And the fact that they often steal (Sorry, ‘Sample’) beats from other musicians really grates on my nerves. And of course, Most Hip-Hop/Rappers inability to finish an Album without having 3-10 ‘guest’ rappers on it bugs me.
Music (IMHO) is meant to be art, and the whole Rap/Hip-Hop scene is so bland and formulated. I have yet to hear something in these scene that made me think differently.

By: sheely

sheely — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 15:08:23 +0000

@sarielthrawn- Be happy. I put your comment up there because it was thought-provoking and challenging, and lead me to spend some time listening to some of Kanye’s songs and analyzing exactly what I like about his music, which is what writing for this site is all about to me. If every single person commenting had just agreed with me (or if no one had commented at all, which is much worse), I probably wouldn’t have thrown myself at his body of work with the vigor that I did, and I wouldn’t have written this post (and I’m happy that I did). So, I for one appreciate that you disagreed with me, largely because it was still a way more thoughtful kind of disagreement than the occasional folks who just say “Why are you guys overthinking this so much? Just enjoy the music, you losers!!!11!”

Also, no problem that rap/Kanye aren’t really your cup of tea. Even if you’re not going to be won over, I’m glad that you gave the songs up there a spin. But I also think you’re selling yourself short- clearly you have an opinion about things like flow and wordplay. What songwriters/lyricists (rap or otherwise), really do it for you, and what do you like about them?

By: sarielthrawn

sarielthrawn — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:07:57 +0000

Rap’s not really my thing, so I can’t really speak to how much better or worse Kanye is compared to other rappers. I just don’t like his music. It’s just one man’s opinion.

I listened to those tracks up there in the article. I tried. I guess I just don’t get it. Maybe I’m getting to old for this.

Should I be happy or embarrassed that I’m quoted at the top of the page?

By: Matthew Wrather

Matthew Wrather — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 21:07:33 +0000

@sheely Depends whether your speaking Latin or Spanish.

Seriously, though, I think that “persona” is a word that has made the jump into English and doesn’t have to be pluralized in the Latin way.

(FWIW, I think the same thing about the word “forum.” I mean, you’d really look like a douche talking about the different fora you visit on websites.)

Also, I think Kanye is a good lyricist. (There. That’s on-topic.)

By: perich

perich — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:16:59 +0000

@sheely-fo-really:

“as opposed to producing output of widely varying quality, which has characterized Nas, post-Illmatic.”

That’s exactly what the Thursday post will be about, funny enough. This should be fun. :D

By: Eddie

Eddie — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:07:54 +0000

I have thought Kanye had more going on than met the eye since I caught his collabo with Common on Dave Chappelle Show- nearly every song of his (even the cringe-inducing autotuned ones) have absolutely genius lyrical content, and it’s not even wasted on covering the typical-for-the-genre topics. In fact, even if he raps about “Money Hoes and Rims”, it’s more intelligently discussed than it usually is by his peers (excellent example of this in the post!).

Don’t let the persona fool you- he’s a public braggart who is inwardly insecure but a level deeper, he has the talent to back up the brag. Add to that his appreciation for the classics in his samples, and I don’t know how any fan of music (that isn’t a Baptist) could truly hate the man.

By: sheely

sheely — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:06:34 +0000

Ohhhh, SICK DICTIONARY BURN.

Wrather, you’re our resident usage Nazi, what is your take on the plural of persona?

By: Matthew Wrather

Matthew Wrather — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:56:23 +0000

Merriam-Webster? Wasn’t that the dictionary that included “irregardless”?

By: sheely

sheely — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 15:19:56 +0000

@Rob- Thanks- Your defense of Yeezy in the comments to the last post definitely gave me food for thought as I was working on this.

I was going to discuss the production aspect in this post, but I ran out of time (and realize that I had a fair amount to say about the lyrics on their own); I may pick it up again in the future.

@Dan-This certainly is an acceptable place for pedantry. As a result, I’ll counter that OED, Merriam-Webster, and Wiktionary all indicate that personas is acceptable (the OED even lists it before personae). Do you have evidence to the contrary?