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	<title>Comments on: Why I&#8217;m Not Going to Read Your Fanfic</title>
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	<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/09/22/why-im-not-going-to-read-your-fanfic/</link>
	<description>Overthinking It subjects the popular culture to a level of scrutiny it probably doesn&#039;t deserve.</description>
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		<title>By: Noobmagick</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/09/22/why-im-not-going-to-read-your-fanfic/#comment-11591</link>
		<dc:creator>Noobmagick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 00:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1785#comment-11591</guid>
		<description>I personally don&#039;t read fanfics because some &quot;fanfic&quot; writers rely too much on their strict grip on grammar and the story hardly takes on a life of its own.

Maybe because the characters are too familiar that it&#039;s hard to bring it somewhere. If there&#039;s something to say about such writers, I&#039;d say &quot;tell me something I don&#039;t know&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally don&#8217;t read fanfics because some &#8220;fanfic&#8221; writers rely too much on their strict grip on grammar and the story hardly takes on a life of its own.</p>
<p>Maybe because the characters are too familiar that it&#8217;s hard to bring it somewhere. If there&#8217;s something to say about such writers, I&#8217;d say &#8220;tell me something I don&#8217;t know&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Blackpanther</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/09/22/why-im-not-going-to-read-your-fanfic/#comment-9799</link>
		<dc:creator>Blackpanther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 15:01:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1785#comment-9799</guid>
		<description>I realize i&#039;m very very late to this party, but these rules should be stickied at the top of the ff.net homepage. And at the top of the page where you submit fics. 

Because you&#039;re right in every single aspect. Including the crossover ones. I admit some craky crossovers might just work but most of them don&#039;t. And crossovers between more than two things will tend to go down the too many characters route.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize i&#8217;m very very late to this party, but these rules should be stickied at the top of the ff.net homepage. And at the top of the page where you submit fics. </p>
<p>Because you&#8217;re right in every single aspect. Including the crossover ones. I admit some craky crossovers might just work but most of them don&#8217;t. And crossovers between more than two things will tend to go down the too many characters route.</p>
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		<title>By: Valandhir</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/09/22/why-im-not-going-to-read-your-fanfic/#comment-5803</link>
		<dc:creator>Valandhir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Feb 2009 21:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1785#comment-5803</guid>
		<description>Hi,

I just read your little article here and laughed heartily. You nailed some issues of fanfic nicely. But why &quot;admit&quot; that you read fanfic now and then? It&#039;s not a crime. I love reading books, and I amuse myself by reading fanfic if I feel like it. 
But to be fair - an admission on my side. I write fanfic now and then. Why? Because it forces me to write in English. You can&#039;t imagine what doing some dozen pages for a fanfic can do for your ability to write a foreign language. And there&#039;s always some nice soul willing to betaread your stuff and tell you what you are doing wrong. 
There was one thing on your article that made me frown, though: You won&#039;t read a fanfic where nothing happens in the first paragraph/line? Sorry, I usually skip fanfics that throw too much action at me on the first paragraph. I admit, there are rare exceptions, that managed to built up a strong start like that. But fics a la: &quot;The night Ginny Weasley was murdered her brother crossed the sund of Azkaban on the boat to the mainland..&quot; are very rare. I usually enjoy some good describtions in the beginning, or a dialog - sequence if it is well done. Many good novels need an entire chapter before getting anywhere significant. (I particularly well remember reading J.F.Cooper as a kid, giving huge describtions of the Canadian landscape before anything else happened.) 
Ah yes, and in your terms I tend to overuse adverbs. Mainly because most of the stories I write play in my head like a movie, and I try to describe what I &quot;see&quot; there. 

Valandhir</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I just read your little article here and laughed heartily. You nailed some issues of fanfic nicely. But why &#8220;admit&#8221; that you read fanfic now and then? It&#8217;s not a crime. I love reading books, and I amuse myself by reading fanfic if I feel like it.<br />
But to be fair &#8211; an admission on my side. I write fanfic now and then. Why? Because it forces me to write in English. You can&#8217;t imagine what doing some dozen pages for a fanfic can do for your ability to write a foreign language. And there&#8217;s always some nice soul willing to betaread your stuff and tell you what you are doing wrong.<br />
There was one thing on your article that made me frown, though: You won&#8217;t read a fanfic where nothing happens in the first paragraph/line? Sorry, I usually skip fanfics that throw too much action at me on the first paragraph. I admit, there are rare exceptions, that managed to built up a strong start like that. But fics a la: &#8220;The night Ginny Weasley was murdered her brother crossed the sund of Azkaban on the boat to the mainland..&#8221; are very rare. I usually enjoy some good describtions in the beginning, or a dialog &#8211; sequence if it is well done. Many good novels need an entire chapter before getting anywhere significant. (I particularly well remember reading J.F.Cooper as a kid, giving huge describtions of the Canadian landscape before anything else happened.)<br />
Ah yes, and in your terms I tend to overuse adverbs. Mainly because most of the stories I write play in my head like a movie, and I try to describe what I &#8220;see&#8221; there. </p>
<p>Valandhir</p>
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		<title>By: cornflakes</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/09/22/why-im-not-going-to-read-your-fanfic/#comment-4819</link>
		<dc:creator>cornflakes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Jan 2009 19:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1785#comment-4819</guid>
		<description>&quot;5.    I will probably not read your fanfic if you tell me in the blurb who is going to get together in the fic.&quot;

A quick word about this, I think it depends... it helps people waste less time-- taking the HP fandom for example, if I find Draco/Hagrid repellent, and a blurb announces that it will have that pairing, I will not need to waste time reading the fic before I realise the point of the fic.

On the flip side, sometimes I just want to read about a certain pairing. Having the pairing announced in the blurb doesn&#039;t have to kill the surprise/tension, sometimes the best pairing fics are those that reinvent a familiar pairing with a fresh approach/perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;5.    I will probably not read your fanfic if you tell me in the blurb who is going to get together in the fic.&#8221;</p>
<p>A quick word about this, I think it depends&#8230; it helps people waste less time&#8211; taking the HP fandom for example, if I find Draco/Hagrid repellent, and a blurb announces that it will have that pairing, I will not need to waste time reading the fic before I realise the point of the fic.</p>
<p>On the flip side, sometimes I just want to read about a certain pairing. Having the pairing announced in the blurb doesn&#8217;t have to kill the surprise/tension, sometimes the best pairing fics are those that reinvent a familiar pairing with a fresh approach/perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: An Unlikely Source of Superhero Fan Fic &#124; Overthinking It</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/09/22/why-im-not-going-to-read-your-fanfic/#comment-4311</link>
		<dc:creator>An Unlikely Source of Superhero Fan Fic &#124; Overthinking It</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 13:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1785#comment-4311</guid>
		<description>[...] that we have at least two violations of Mlawski&#8217;s rules on good fanfic: both stray far from the mood and style of their original sources, and the second one crosses over [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that we have at least two violations of Mlawski&#8217;s rules on good fanfic: both stray far from the mood and style of their original sources, and the second one crosses over [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/09/22/why-im-not-going-to-read-your-fanfic/#comment-3381</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 20:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1785#comment-3381</guid>
		<description>i can&#039;t read most fanfiction, either--and i *write* fanfiction (i like to think that i&#039;m the creme of the crop, though...well, most of the time). 

my best works are my evagelion fics, &quot;Requiem&quot; and &quot;At World&#039;s End&quot;, i think. &quot;requiem&quot; especially--i was channeling some serious mojo when i wrote that one, and it kicks an unbelievable amount of ass, if i do say so myself. it&#039;s also pretty much completely unlike anything else i&#039;ve ever written (*cough*yaoi*cough*).

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3182385/1/Requiem
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3515932/1/At_Worlds_End

&quot;DBZ Condensed&quot;, which is a fic of...well, you know...is also a rarity in my work, as it is a comedy, and it *really* rips into the subject matter.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3849986/1/DBZ_Condensed

there&#039;s other stories that people love to death, but quite frankly, i&#039;m not so sure about all of those people.

if you decide to check out my profile page, do NOT look at &quot;Breaking,&quot; as it&#039;s...well, plotless smut. really, if i had any shame, i&#039;d just delete it. the people love it, though--see what i mean?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i can&#8217;t read most fanfiction, either&#8211;and i *write* fanfiction (i like to think that i&#8217;m the creme of the crop, though&#8230;well, most of the time). </p>
<p>my best works are my evagelion fics, &#8220;Requiem&#8221; and &#8220;At World&#8217;s End&#8221;, i think. &#8220;requiem&#8221; especially&#8211;i was channeling some serious mojo when i wrote that one, and it kicks an unbelievable amount of ass, if i do say so myself. it&#8217;s also pretty much completely unlike anything else i&#8217;ve ever written (*cough*yaoi*cough*).</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3182385/1/Requiem" rel="nofollow">http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3182385/1/Requiem</a><br />
<a href="http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3515932/1/At_Worlds_End" rel="nofollow">http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3515932/1/At_Worlds_End</a></p>
<p>&#8220;DBZ Condensed&#8221;, which is a fic of&#8230;well, you know&#8230;is also a rarity in my work, as it is a comedy, and it *really* rips into the subject matter.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3849986/1/DBZ_Condensed" rel="nofollow">http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3849986/1/DBZ_Condensed</a></p>
<p>there&#8217;s other stories that people love to death, but quite frankly, i&#8217;m not so sure about all of those people.</p>
<p>if you decide to check out my profile page, do NOT look at &#8220;Breaking,&#8221; as it&#8217;s&#8230;well, plotless smut. really, if i had any shame, i&#8217;d just delete it. the people love it, though&#8211;see what i mean?</p>
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		<title>By: pronker</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/09/22/why-im-not-going-to-read-your-fanfic/#comment-2530</link>
		<dc:creator>pronker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 20:26:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1785#comment-2530</guid>
		<description>Hi, I enjoyed your article greatly.  FFN has changed some things in the past week, perhaps your idea of &#039;the greatest number of reviews&#039; or &#039;most popular&#039; will be implemented, as the site skyehawke.com has done.

Sincerely, 

pronker</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I enjoyed your article greatly.  FFN has changed some things in the past week, perhaps your idea of &#8216;the greatest number of reviews&#8217; or &#8216;most popular&#8217; will be implemented, as the site skyehawke.com has done.</p>
<p>Sincerely, </p>
<p>pronker</p>
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		<title>By: pronker</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/09/22/why-im-not-going-to-read-your-fanfic/#comment-2529</link>
		<dc:creator>pronker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 18:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1785#comment-2529</guid>
		<description>Hi, a note to say that I enjoyed your essay on the ins and outs of FFN.  I agree that the crossovers make the mind melt.  As a girl at sleepovers in 1969, we friends wrote legal pad after legal pad of death-defying Star Trek stories, mainly h/c, which were no better nor worse that what is on the site. FFN is a great source of both fun reads and moan-evoking prose.  And poetry!  Oh, the poetry!  And songfics.  Ah, well, thanks for the interesting article and happy writing,

pronker</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, a note to say that I enjoyed your essay on the ins and outs of FFN.  I agree that the crossovers make the mind melt.  As a girl at sleepovers in 1969, we friends wrote legal pad after legal pad of death-defying Star Trek stories, mainly h/c, which were no better nor worse that what is on the site. FFN is a great source of both fun reads and moan-evoking prose.  And poetry!  Oh, the poetry!  And songfics.  Ah, well, thanks for the interesting article and happy writing,</p>
<p>pronker</p>
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		<title>By: mike weber</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/09/22/why-im-not-going-to-read-your-fanfic/#comment-2363</link>
		<dc:creator>mike weber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1785#comment-2363</guid>
		<description>Oh - incidentally - David Gerrold&#039;s &quot;The Trouble with Tribbles&quot; started out as a &quot;Star Trek&quot; fanfic (and a Heinlein Knockoff - check out the chapter &quot;Flat Cats Factorial&quot; in his &quot;The Rolling Stones) that Gerrold submitted over the transom and beat the odds...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh &#8211; incidentally &#8211; David Gerrold&#8217;s &#8220;The Trouble with Tribbles&#8221; started out as a &#8220;Star Trek&#8221; fanfic (and a Heinlein Knockoff &#8211; check out the chapter &#8220;Flat Cats Factorial&#8221; in his &#8220;The Rolling Stones) that Gerrold submitted over the transom and beat the odds&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: mike weber</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/09/22/why-im-not-going-to-read-your-fanfic/#comment-2362</link>
		<dc:creator>mike weber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 16:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1785#comment-2362</guid>
		<description>&quot;They fight.  During the verbal sparring match, they both make fun of the other’s obvious crush.  Sexual tension rises.  They bone—but passionately.  Like, hair ripping sex.  But afterward, one of them just leaves.  Silently.  Or kicks the other out.  Things are awkward between them for a while.&quot;

Sounds like MaryJanice Davidson&#039;s &quot;Betsy, Queen of the Vampires&quot; series, some of the most goofily fun paranormal romances that my wife drags home...

&quot;If you have to have long expanses of narration without dialogue, put in paragraph breaks every so often.  For my eyes.&quot;

As someone on the rec.arts.sf,fandom newsgroup remarked: &quot;Mr Paragraph is your friend.&quot;

&quot;Or: &#039;he shouted angrily.&#039;  When someone shouts, she is probably angry.  And, hopefully, you’ve already made it clear through the dialogue and narration that the character is angry.  Don’t be redundant.&quot;

(1) &quot;Hopefully&quot;?  for shame.
(2) In James Blish&#039;s SF criticism written under the name &quot;William Atheling Jr&quot; i encountered the phrase &quot;said bookisms&quot;.  He was death on them.  And, as i recall, he wasn&#039;t real big on using adverbs with them.

(Incidentally, i can whole-heartedly recommend to would-be writers in any fictional field - not just SF/Fantasy)the collections of the &quot;Atheling&quot; SF crit, &quot;The Issue at Hand&quot; {http://www.nesfa.org/press/Books/Advent/Blish-1.htm} and &quot;More Issues at Hand&quot; {http://www.nesfa.org/press/Books/Advent/Blish-2.htm}.)

&quot;6. I will not read your fic if there is a Mary Sue in it.&quot;

Case in Point (and by the original author, not fan-fic, no less): Lackey&#039;s &quot;Exile&#039;s Valor&quot; - which has other problems that ought to be typical of fan-fic, not the author&#039;s own work, too. {http://electronictiger.net/reviews/exile.htm}

&quot;7. I will probably not read your fic if it’s a crossover; I definitely won’t read it if it crosses over too many canons.

&quot;Who in the world has seen all of those shows and is familiar enough with all of them to get your references?&quot;

The late David McDaniel, who recognised every fan-boy&#039;s dream and got PAID (and by the original creators, too) to write fan-fic (&quot;an from UNCLE&quot; novels) always had zillions of in-joke/obscure references, particularly in the book &quot;The Rainbow Affair&quot;, which is well-beloved by fans of the series (of books, that is, not necessarily of the show), and the equally-late John M Ford&#039;s &quot;How Much for Just the Planet&quot;, and the not-so-late Barbara Hambly&#039;s &quot;Ishmael&quot;, two &quot;Star Trek&quot; novels, revel in their refrences. Hambly crosses over &quot;Star Trek&quot; and &quot;Here Come the Brides&quot; (there is a certain inner logic to that, of course), and tosses in &quot;Dr Who&quot; and &quot;Have Gun, Will Travel&quot;, &quot;Bonanza&quot; and original &quot;Battlestar: Galactica&quot; references...


&quot;Back to Batman, since it’s a shared text for most of us.  Let’s say you decided to write a fanfic about Alfred.  Why not?  Alfred’s pretty great.

&quot;What’s Alfred’s problem?  Well, his main goal is to help Batman save Gotham.  That’s his thing.  I guess he also buttles from time to time.&quot;

And he apparently is something like former SAS and was a mercenary in the 1960s or so...  I think you&#039;ve defined what i found irritating about &quot;Batman Begins&quot; and &quot;Dark Knight&quot; - the characters are out of character.  And, oddly enough, the least out of character is Alfred  who, the comics have shown us, was a commando in World War 2 and often takes an active part and frequently delivers rather crushing and sardonic commentary on &quot;Master Bruce&quot;&#039;s activities which obviously masks a deep concern...

Incidentally, a whole long page of nothing *but* &quot;crossover fan-fic&quot; (just the opening or a typical paragraph or two) is entitled &quot;If Lord Of the Rings had been written by someone else!?&quot; {http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=1265}</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They fight.  During the verbal sparring match, they both make fun of the other’s obvious crush.  Sexual tension rises.  They bone—but passionately.  Like, hair ripping sex.  But afterward, one of them just leaves.  Silently.  Or kicks the other out.  Things are awkward between them for a while.&#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds like MaryJanice Davidson&#8217;s &#8220;Betsy, Queen of the Vampires&#8221; series, some of the most goofily fun paranormal romances that my wife drags home&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;If you have to have long expanses of narration without dialogue, put in paragraph breaks every so often.  For my eyes.&#8221;</p>
<p>As someone on the rec.arts.sf,fandom newsgroup remarked: &#8220;Mr Paragraph is your friend.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Or: &#8216;he shouted angrily.&#8217;  When someone shouts, she is probably angry.  And, hopefully, you’ve already made it clear through the dialogue and narration that the character is angry.  Don’t be redundant.&#8221;</p>
<p>(1) &#8220;Hopefully&#8221;?  for shame.<br />
(2) In James Blish&#8217;s SF criticism written under the name &#8220;William Atheling Jr&#8221; i encountered the phrase &#8220;said bookisms&#8221;.  He was death on them.  And, as i recall, he wasn&#8217;t real big on using adverbs with them.</p>
<p>(Incidentally, i can whole-heartedly recommend to would-be writers in any fictional field &#8211; not just SF/Fantasy)the collections of the &#8220;Atheling&#8221; SF crit, &#8220;The Issue at Hand&#8221; {http://www.nesfa.org/press/Books/Advent/Blish-1.htm} and &#8220;More Issues at Hand&#8221; {http://www.nesfa.org/press/Books/Advent/Blish-2.htm}.)</p>
<p>&#8220;6. I will not read your fic if there is a Mary Sue in it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Case in Point (and by the original author, not fan-fic, no less): Lackey&#8217;s &#8220;Exile&#8217;s Valor&#8221; &#8211; which has other problems that ought to be typical of fan-fic, not the author&#8217;s own work, too. {http://electronictiger.net/reviews/exile.htm}</p>
<p>&#8220;7. I will probably not read your fic if it’s a crossover; I definitely won’t read it if it crosses over too many canons.</p>
<p>&#8220;Who in the world has seen all of those shows and is familiar enough with all of them to get your references?&#8221;</p>
<p>The late David McDaniel, who recognised every fan-boy&#8217;s dream and got PAID (and by the original creators, too) to write fan-fic (&#8220;an from UNCLE&#8221; novels) always had zillions of in-joke/obscure references, particularly in the book &#8220;The Rainbow Affair&#8221;, which is well-beloved by fans of the series (of books, that is, not necessarily of the show), and the equally-late John M Ford&#8217;s &#8220;How Much for Just the Planet&#8221;, and the not-so-late Barbara Hambly&#8217;s &#8220;Ishmael&#8221;, two &#8220;Star Trek&#8221; novels, revel in their refrences. Hambly crosses over &#8220;Star Trek&#8221; and &#8220;Here Come the Brides&#8221; (there is a certain inner logic to that, of course), and tosses in &#8220;Dr Who&#8221; and &#8220;Have Gun, Will Travel&#8221;, &#8220;Bonanza&#8221; and original &#8220;Battlestar: Galactica&#8221; references&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;Back to Batman, since it’s a shared text for most of us.  Let’s say you decided to write a fanfic about Alfred.  Why not?  Alfred’s pretty great.</p>
<p>&#8220;What’s Alfred’s problem?  Well, his main goal is to help Batman save Gotham.  That’s his thing.  I guess he also buttles from time to time.&#8221;</p>
<p>And he apparently is something like former SAS and was a mercenary in the 1960s or so&#8230;  I think you&#8217;ve defined what i found irritating about &#8220;Batman Begins&#8221; and &#8220;Dark Knight&#8221; &#8211; the characters are out of character.  And, oddly enough, the least out of character is Alfred  who, the comics have shown us, was a commando in World War 2 and often takes an active part and frequently delivers rather crushing and sardonic commentary on &#8220;Master Bruce&#8221;&#8216;s activities which obviously masks a deep concern&#8230;</p>
<p>Incidentally, a whole long page of nothing *but* &#8220;crossover fan-fic&#8221; (just the opening or a typical paragraph or two) is entitled &#8220;If Lord Of the Rings had been written by someone else!?&#8221; {http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=1265}</p>
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