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	<title>Comments on: Dungeons &amp; Democrats</title>
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	<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/21/dungeons-democrats/</link>
	<description>Overthinking It subjects the popular culture to a level of scrutiny it probably doesn&#039;t deserve.</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Overthinking Politics: A Look Back &#124; Overthinking It</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/21/dungeons-democrats/#comment-2528</link>
		<dc:creator>Overthinking Politics: A Look Back &#124; Overthinking It</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 17:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1186#comment-2528</guid>
		<description>[...] Dungeons &amp; Democrats [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Dungeons &amp; Democrats [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gab</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/21/dungeons-democrats/#comment-1262</link>
		<dc:creator>Gab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 05:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1186#comment-1262</guid>
		<description>A min-maxer is someone that optimizes their character in order to beat the game instead of just playing to have a good time.  So say they pick a fighter.  They go as low as possible in stats like charisma and intelligence and as high as possible in strength and then pump everything they gain into their combat-related skills.  People like that are rather annoying.  There are metagames that are a bit more rounded, but not really.  If you&#039;ve ever heard of 8-Bit Theater, the character Red Mage is definitely a metagamer that totally manipulates the rules and finds every single loophole and uses them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A min-maxer is someone that optimizes their character in order to beat the game instead of just playing to have a good time.  So say they pick a fighter.  They go as low as possible in stats like charisma and intelligence and as high as possible in strength and then pump everything they gain into their combat-related skills.  People like that are rather annoying.  There are metagames that are a bit more rounded, but not really.  If you&#8217;ve ever heard of 8-Bit Theater, the character Red Mage is definitely a metagamer that totally manipulates the rules and finds every single loophole and uses them.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mlawski</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/21/dungeons-democrats/#comment-1260</link>
		<dc:creator>mlawski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1186#comment-1260</guid>
		<description>People who min-max are people who roll-play instead of role-play.  They want to be 1337.  ?Comprendes?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People who min-max are people who roll-play instead of role-play.  They want to be 1337.  ?Comprendes?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lee</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/21/dungeons-democrats/#comment-1258</link>
		<dc:creator>lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 22:58:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1186#comment-1258</guid>
		<description>Gab, along your points, I would say that a reference to &quot;min-maxers&quot; (fenzel) is over the heads of most, but things like experience points, dexterity, levels, etc., are more common knowledge.

So my next n00b question: what the hell is min-maxing?  too lazy to wikipeia it myself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gab, along your points, I would say that a reference to &#8220;min-maxers&#8221; (fenzel) is over the heads of most, but things like experience points, dexterity, levels, etc., are more common knowledge.</p>
<p>So my next n00b question: what the hell is min-maxing?  too lazy to wikipeia it myself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gab</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/21/dungeons-democrats/#comment-1256</link>
		<dc:creator>Gab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 21:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1186#comment-1256</guid>
		<description>Oh, and if McCain really is playing the Magic Card, I sure as f*** hope he doesn&#039;t have Wrath of God.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and if McCain really is playing the Magic Card, I sure as f*** hope he doesn&#8217;t have Wrath of God.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gab</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/21/dungeons-democrats/#comment-1255</link>
		<dc:creator>Gab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 21:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1186#comment-1255</guid>
		<description>I cannot count/type.  Somebody else asked for a &quot;preview&quot; option.  I reiterate that request.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot count/type.  Somebody else asked for a &#8220;preview&#8221; option.  I reiterate that request.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gab</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/21/dungeons-democrats/#comment-1254</link>
		<dc:creator>Gab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 21:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1186#comment-1254</guid>
		<description>1.  If you want to be literal, I just don&#039;t see that being possible.  Unless Obama was a total metagamer and exponentially excelled his level-ups by manipulating the system.  And isn&#039;t Obama all about playing fair and leveling the field?  No, I think he&#039;d go for the high cha stat and bat his eyelashes at the world, charming them into compliance.  He&#039;d have to roll hella diplomacy checks, and hopefully the people making sense-motive checks in response will do badly.

2.  Rebecca is right.  The D&amp;Ders I know (and myself, yeah), at least, aren&#039;t really all that uptight about the jibes- it&#039;s almost a badge of honor.  &quot;Hey, they notice us enough to make fun of us, huzzah!&quot;  We really enjoy laughing at ourselves.  Similar attitudes show up in the LARPing community, too.  

5.  I think that really depends on how deep into it you get when you make a joke like that.  If you keep it really broad and general, it&#039;s probably going to be common knowledge enough for anyone to understand.  But if you start talking about things that are more technical and detailed, the number of people alienated from that increases.  Stick to the basics, and it will be more unniversal; get technical and specific, and the crowd that &quot;gets it&quot; will shrink.  

Here&#039;s a nerdy example I experienced: I was on a forum where people were just posting useless information for fun (things like stats or weird laws or the acidic qualities of Coke), and I saw this post: &quot;Vigilance means your creatures do not tap when attacking.&quot;  It&#039;s a Magic: The Gathering reference that I totally got because I play (yeah, uber-nerd).  So I thought it was friggin&#039; hilarious and brilliant.  But how much of that would someone that doesn&#039;t play understand?  Not much.  So would they find it funnny?  Probably not.  Not a lot of people that don&#039;t play even know what &quot;tapping&quot; means (and in case you don&#039;t know, in order to attack someone with a creature, you must turn that  card sideways, and once it&#039;s tapped/sideways, you can&#039;t use it again that round unless it gets turned back somehow), so our double entendre  jokes about tapping each other, this, that, or the other person/place/thing would be totally lost on the average non-Magic player, too.  And pretty much all of that forum post would be completely lost on someone that doesn&#039;t play because of this.  (Not surprisingly, I was the only person to respond at all.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1.  If you want to be literal, I just don&#8217;t see that being possible.  Unless Obama was a total metagamer and exponentially excelled his level-ups by manipulating the system.  And isn&#8217;t Obama all about playing fair and leveling the field?  No, I think he&#8217;d go for the high cha stat and bat his eyelashes at the world, charming them into compliance.  He&#8217;d have to roll hella diplomacy checks, and hopefully the people making sense-motive checks in response will do badly.</p>
<p>2.  Rebecca is right.  The D&amp;Ders I know (and myself, yeah), at least, aren&#8217;t really all that uptight about the jibes- it&#8217;s almost a badge of honor.  &#8220;Hey, they notice us enough to make fun of us, huzzah!&#8221;  We really enjoy laughing at ourselves.  Similar attitudes show up in the LARPing community, too.  </p>
<p>5.  I think that really depends on how deep into it you get when you make a joke like that.  If you keep it really broad and general, it&#8217;s probably going to be common knowledge enough for anyone to understand.  But if you start talking about things that are more technical and detailed, the number of people alienated from that increases.  Stick to the basics, and it will be more unniversal; get technical and specific, and the crowd that &#8220;gets it&#8221; will shrink.  </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a nerdy example I experienced: I was on a forum where people were just posting useless information for fun (things like stats or weird laws or the acidic qualities of Coke), and I saw this post: &#8220;Vigilance means your creatures do not tap when attacking.&#8221;  It&#8217;s a Magic: The Gathering reference that I totally got because I play (yeah, uber-nerd).  So I thought it was friggin&#8217; hilarious and brilliant.  But how much of that would someone that doesn&#8217;t play understand?  Not much.  So would they find it funnny?  Probably not.  Not a lot of people that don&#8217;t play even know what &#8220;tapping&#8221; means (and in case you don&#8217;t know, in order to attack someone with a creature, you must turn that  card sideways, and once it&#8217;s tapped/sideways, you can&#8217;t use it again that round unless it gets turned back somehow), so our double entendre  jokes about tapping each other, this, that, or the other person/place/thing would be totally lost on the average non-Magic player, too.  And pretty much all of that forum post would be completely lost on someone that doesn&#8217;t play because of this.  (Not surprisingly, I was the only person to respond at all.)</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: fenzel</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/21/dungeons-democrats/#comment-1251</link>
		<dc:creator>fenzel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 18:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1186#comment-1251</guid>
		<description>1. It doesn&#039;t matter. The half-orc barbarian character would still be all douchy and make him carry the tent. Stupid min-maxers.

2. I actually have a post on this about half-written. My answer to it is &quot;Several weeks after you make or hear a joke like this for the first time -- after it passes from your short- to long-term memory, source amnesia causes most of the sense of irony to be lost.&quot;

3. As a Boston-area comedian, I&#039;d say that it mostly depends on whether you&#039;re north or south of the river. North of the river, yes, south of the river, definitely not.

I also have a half-written post about Jeff Dunham that addresses this point extensively.

I need to get on those!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. It doesn&#8217;t matter. The half-orc barbarian character would still be all douchy and make him carry the tent. Stupid min-maxers.</p>
<p>2. I actually have a post on this about half-written. My answer to it is &#8220;Several weeks after you make or hear a joke like this for the first time &#8212; after it passes from your short- to long-term memory, source amnesia causes most of the sense of irony to be lost.&#8221;</p>
<p>3. As a Boston-area comedian, I&#8217;d say that it mostly depends on whether you&#8217;re north or south of the river. North of the river, yes, south of the river, definitely not.</p>
<p>I also have a half-written post about Jeff Dunham that addresses this point extensively.</p>
<p>I need to get on those!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: mlawski</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/21/dungeons-democrats/#comment-1248</link>
		<dc:creator>mlawski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 17:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1186#comment-1248</guid>
		<description>Obama rolls twenties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama rolls twenties.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rebecca</title>
		<link>http://www.overthinkingit.com/2008/08/21/dungeons-democrats/#comment-1246</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.overthinkingit.com/?p=1186#comment-1246</guid>
		<description>1. He would probably pass his own deity in hit points, spell level, and he could either cast one spell of World Racial Healing, or he could cast 3,636 Cure Light Wounds spells (accounting for his unknown Wisdom score, of course).  Hey, maybe that&#039;s Obama&#039;s secret health plan!

2. Wherever the funny is. 

3. My husband says that his boss is very Joe Nascar, but would still get jokes about +5 spells of distraction.  He just wouldn&#039;t have any context.  Like how people get that &quot;Take my wife...please&quot; is funny, but have never actually seen the whole routine it comes from.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. He would probably pass his own deity in hit points, spell level, and he could either cast one spell of World Racial Healing, or he could cast 3,636 Cure Light Wounds spells (accounting for his unknown Wisdom score, of course).  Hey, maybe that&#8217;s Obama&#8217;s secret health plan!</p>
<p>2. Wherever the funny is. </p>
<p>3. My husband says that his boss is very Joe Nascar, but would still get jokes about +5 spells of distraction.  He just wouldn&#8217;t have any context.  Like how people get that &#8220;Take my wife&#8230;please&#8221; is funny, but have never actually seen the whole routine it comes from.</p>
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